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> Nightclubs often are required to have security beacuse they are a nuisance to the surrounding area How many night clubs are located in non-urban residential

> Nightclubs often are required to have security beacuse they are a nuisance to the surrounding area How many night clubs are located in non-urban residential areas? The commercial properties near them would be closed because, you know, they operate during the day and night clubs don't. > the taxpayer shouldn't be picking up the tab because you decided to overserve your customers The solution to overserved customers is to not overserve them, not to have off-duty cops or security there to manage them after the fact. This is quite easily remedied by having the cops come by and fine them until they stop doing it. The fines will pay for the enforcement, so the taxpayers will be fine. By paying off-duty cops to manage overserved customers you are making real law enforcement improbable and making the problem worse. > The off duty cop requirement is the only odd part here Strange to qualify with 'only' when it is a major point of the piece.

willcipriano 3y ago
You understand that any visible intoxication is overserving a customer right? You could give most people a beer an hour or so and forget about bottle service. Mixed drinks would have to contain less than a shots worth. I'm on board but the nightclubs won't be.
- Eisenstein 3y ago
  Is it your contention that every establishment serving customers more than a beer an hour should require security on premises?
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    I'd be OK if they closed entirely, but barring that I demand they pay the costs of externalities they create. One method of doing so would be hiring private security. They should also have to carry a bond to pay out for any DUIs, violence, vandalism, domestic violence or sexual assault that they are a co-conspirator of.
    - FireBeyond 3y ago
      You obviously have an issue with nightclubs. Let's extend your logic - should a gas station convenience store also carry that bond? I mean, you can buy a box of beer at the gas station and go home and be violent.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  > You understand that any visible intoxication is overserving a customer right? No, it's not. Continued service of someone who is visibly intoxicated, however, is. I understand the tenets of responsible service of alcohol, and that as a server, you are meant to stop service immediately at that point. Realities, however, are more nuanced. I teach new EMTs and paramedics, and one of the discussion points is around informed consent and implied consent. Every class has a scenario or two where a student inevitably says to or about a mock patient, "Well, you have been drinking alcohol so I have implied consent to treat you" or similar. "So, because he's had a drink, he can't refuse medical advice/treatment?" "Right." "So I can go to a restaurant, have two glasses of red wine with dinner, and be legally allowed to drive a motor vehicle home, but not legally make decisions about my own health?" RSA education is generally more black and white, but even with your comment above you show that it is easy to misinterpret. It is not a case of "if your customer is visibly intoxicated, then you overserved them", because they weren't intoxicated until that point (all else being equal, if someone sits on a bar stool and orders 4 shots of tequila to start and downs them all in front of you, then reasonability applies, of course).
wolverine876 3y ago
I've been to community meeting with neighbors complaining about drunk bar customers urinating, sleeping, barfing on their lawns; making noise late into the night; fighting; etc. About security specifically, bar fights are a cliche and alchohol makes people violent. Are we going to pretend that isn't an issue?

willcipriano 3y ago

You understand that any visible intoxication is overserving a customer right? You could give most people a beer an hour or so and forget about bottle service. Mixed drinks would have to contain less than a shots worth. I'm on board but the nightclubs won't be.

Eisenstein 3y ago
Is it your contention that every establishment serving customers more than a beer an hour should require security on premises?
- willcipriano 3y ago
  I'd be OK if they closed entirely, but barring that I demand they pay the costs of externalities they create. One method of doing so would be hiring private security. They should also have to carry a bond to pay out for any DUIs, violence, vandalism, domestic violence or sexual assault that they are a co-conspirator of.
  - FireBeyond 3y ago
    You obviously have an issue with nightclubs. Let's extend your logic - should a gas station convenience store also carry that bond? I mean, you can buy a box of beer at the gas station and go home and be violent.
FireBeyond 3y ago
> You understand that any visible intoxication is overserving a customer right? No, it's not. Continued service of someone who is visibly intoxicated, however, is. I understand the tenets of responsible service of alcohol, and that as a server, you are meant to stop service immediately at that point. Realities, however, are more nuanced. I teach new EMTs and paramedics, and one of the discussion points is around informed consent and implied consent. Every class has a scenario or two where a student inevitably says to or about a mock patient, "Well, you have been drinking alcohol so I have implied consent to treat you" or similar. "So, because he's had a drink, he can't refuse medical advice/treatment?" "Right." "So I can go to a restaurant, have two glasses of red wine with dinner, and be legally allowed to drive a motor vehicle home, but not legally make decisions about my own health?" RSA education is generally more black and white, but even with your comment above you show that it is easy to misinterpret. It is not a case of "if your customer is visibly intoxicated, then you overserved them", because they weren't intoxicated until that point (all else being equal, if someone sits on a bar stool and orders 4 shots of tequila to start and downs them all in front of you, then reasonability applies, of course).

wolverine876 3y ago

I've been to community meeting with neighbors complaining about drunk bar customers urinating, sleeping, barfing on their lawns; making noise late into the night; fighting; etc. About security specifically, bar fights are a cliche and alchohol makes people violent. Are we going to pretend that isn't an issue?