5 ms·

there is no problem here, this is exactly what family is - people who will be there for you when no one else will its a plus for the neighborhoods these people

there is no problem here, this is exactly what family is - people who will be there for you when no one else will its a plus for the neighborhoods these people buy into as well - buyers from good supporting families are probably going to be good neighbors too parents will be more flexible, sympathetic, and less greedy than a bank, and they can feel good about being there for their kids everyone wins

danpalmer 3y ago
It's a significant damper on social mobility, which is generally tied to many positive aspects of society.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  as a parent, my obligation is to my family, not someone else's but even then, my tax dollars pay for public education, infrastructure, public college, roads, etc etc ....I am most definitely subsidizing opportunity for others
  - mistrial9 3y ago
    you are generating pride by doing something for your own family.. but it is stated in the general case, not the personal case. Public policy is tricky that way.
  - woooooo 3y ago
    Nobody's arguing against that or telling you what to do with your money. They're saying its a problem for social mobility when "how much money your parents have" becomes a gatekeeper to homeownership.
    - oldpersonintx 3y ago
      well I'm sorry but what are you going to do about it? you don't know where people get their down payments...if you are really dogmatic about this, you end up with 100% mandatory public housing
      - HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Pass legislation that makes housing more affordable so that you don't need to have rich parents to buy a house...
        foogazi 3y ago
        > makes housing more affordable There’s a lot of variables at play on house prices: desirability, location, space, build cost What legislation can make housing more affordable ?
        HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Legalizing multi family units for one.
  - ksplicer 3y ago
    I think this is short sighted. Even if you want to ignore all the arguments about what's best for society and just focus on your own personal gain, what about your great grandchildren? Or your great great grandchildren? It's estimated that over half of children do worse than their parents today. Investing in a strong safety net and high social mobility are a way to ensure that if generations from now branches of your family tree fall out of middle class they'll have a chance to climb back up again.
    - oldpersonintx 3y ago
      > Investing in a strong safety net and high social mobility are a way to ensure that if generations from now branches of your family tree fall out of middle class they'll have a chance to climb back up again. yes, and I pay six figures in tax every year so there is plenty enough from me in the community pot for you to achieve this if you instead send the money to Ukraine, thats your choice
  - jwestbury 3y ago
    > as a parent, my obligation is to my family, not someone else's As a member of society, however, your obligation is to other members of society. I'm not going to argue that you're not doing that. I do think tax rates are too low on the top 10% in the US, assuming that's where you're from (seems safe) -- but the biggest shortfall is surely on the top 0.1%. The reality is, opportunity for others is objectively declining.
    - oldpersonintx 3y ago
      [flagged]
- johngladtj 3y ago
  Social mobility isn't an unambiguous good
  - notaustinpowers 3y ago
    Nothing in this world is an unambiguous good, but social stagnation sure doesn't seem like the better option.
  - abenga 3y ago
    In what ways is it harmful?
- watwut 3y ago
  Damper on social mobility is inequality itself and that young people can not afford flat without help. Families helping their own kids is not damper on anything. Moreover, it is completely normal behavior historically. Inheritance is a thing and always was.
- Bluecobra 3y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by this. In 2010, my dad gave me $10K to help with closing costs and the down payment of my first home in addition to the money I already already had saved up. It was absolutely the right time to buy a home since it was during the great recession as I also qualified for a $10K first time homebuyers tax credit. My social mobility has been a hockey stick upward since then compared to my parents, due to going to college and having a good job.
  - danpalmer 3y ago
    The fact that your parents could give you that money suggests you were already not at the bottom of the social mobility ladder. It's possible you've moved up the ladder, but it's also possible that your parents did the moving up the ladder (when home ownership was more accessible, jobs paid better), and that you haven't actually moved much from their position, even if you've got a better start in life. Many millennials currently find themselves in this position, myself included. I'm better educated than my parents (by qualification), and I earn more than them, but they own properties and cars and go on holidays frequently, because they bought houses at the right time and earned more proportionally to their costs earlier in life. I'm still very much in the same socio-economic range as my parents are now, they did the moving earlier in their lives, I'm unlikely to be able to move.
justsocrateasin 3y ago
Confused why you don't think this is a problem?? just because family will be there for you when no one else will doesn't mean they are financial liquid enough to support you with $50,000-$100,000 in cash. Clearly that is your situation but for the VAST majority of Americans that is not the case. Average home price in America is over $400,000 which means a 20% down payment is $80,000.
- SaintGhurka 3y ago
  >> Average home price in America is over $400,000 People just starting out aren't usually aiming for the average home. There are lots of homes and condos that are half that price - depending on location. >> which means a 20% down payment is $80,000. If you are faced with this situation, an FHA loan requires 3.5% down and you can buy with a sub-600 credit score. FHA loans are designed for first-time buyers. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mortgages/fha-loan https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mortgages/fha-loan
notaustinpowers 3y ago
This is a signifier that there is less social mobility within American society than in the past. The newest generation should not have to rely on the Bank of Mom & Dad for a down payment to do what Mom and Dad did without that assistance. Also, parents giving you money has zero correlation with your "good, supporting family" statement. Don't draw a comparison of two completely unrelated things. "Everyone wins", yeah expect for the people who's parents don't have a spare $60,000 to give their kids for a down payment on a home.
- geitir 3y ago
  Highly doubt 0 correlation
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    Anecdotally, my parents have offered to help me out with every major cost I've ever faced and living next to me is positively dreadful.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  > "Everyone wins", yeah expect for the people who's parents don't have a spare $60,000 to give their kids for a down payment on a home. my bank deposits are available to be reloaned out to people who don't have a family resource there is no real injustice here, we all contribute to collective support in many ways, from taxes to loan assistance to education and infrastructure that elevates all and provides opportunity for all you will always have some people who have an advantage others don't, that's life
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > parents giving you money has zero correlation with your "good, supporting family" How is that possible for there to be zero correlation? It seems like there's an incredibly strong bi-directional correlation between "my family is supportive to me" and "my family sometimes gives me money".
twobitshifter 3y ago
By this logic is there any problem with nepotism?
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  not imho...for example, if I own a company and wish to make my son or daughter the next CEO...that is my right and my decision if I have the ownership rights to make it happen if my kids screw it up then I would lose not only my own wealth but their inheritance...so there is still risk even to the beneficiaries of nepotism I have zero qualms with people putting family first
hammock 3y ago
By this logic, 38% of young buyers have no one else there for them, but family
zeryx 3y ago
My parents died penniless in my early 20s (mid 30s now); I have friends who's parents are gifting them a Condo or Down Payment as a wedding present. Thankfully my wife and I make good income and have been saving, but the treadmill doesn't work for everyone.
Eumenes 3y ago
I agree with you 100%. I don't see how this is different from parents helping with college or your first car. Its their money, they can do what they want with it. Reading the comments here are scary, its almost like people want a gift/estate tax on down payment money gifted by family, in the name of "equity".
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  I doubt most responders even believe what they are writing, they are just trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, which is 90% of HN
i_am_jl 3y ago
The problem isn't that family is helping, the problem is that homeownership is unattainable if you're not wealthy and don't have family with the means to help.
dkdbejwi383 3y ago
> everyone wins except those without rich parents
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  and kids whose parents never cared about their homework and kids whose parents never cared if they did dumb or illegal things etc etc we don't live in a world of equal outcomes and never will I mean...you were born in the West instead of being born in a hopeless place like Gaza...how unfair!

danpalmer 3y ago

It's a significant damper on social mobility, which is generally tied to many positive aspects of society.

oldpersonintx 3y ago
as a parent, my obligation is to my family, not someone else's but even then, my tax dollars pay for public education, infrastructure, public college, roads, etc etc ....I am most definitely subsidizing opportunity for others
- mistrial9 3y ago
  you are generating pride by doing something for your own family.. but it is stated in the general case, not the personal case. Public policy is tricky that way.
- woooooo 3y ago
  Nobody's arguing against that or telling you what to do with your money. They're saying its a problem for social mobility when "how much money your parents have" becomes a gatekeeper to homeownership.
  - oldpersonintx 3y ago
    well I'm sorry but what are you going to do about it? you don't know where people get their down payments...if you are really dogmatic about this, you end up with 100% mandatory public housing
    - HDThoreaun 3y ago
      Pass legislation that makes housing more affordable so that you don't need to have rich parents to buy a house...
      - foogazi 3y ago
        > makes housing more affordable There’s a lot of variables at play on house prices: desirability, location, space, build cost What legislation can make housing more affordable ?
        HDThoreaun 3y ago
        Legalizing multi family units for one.
- ksplicer 3y ago
  I think this is short sighted. Even if you want to ignore all the arguments about what's best for society and just focus on your own personal gain, what about your great grandchildren? Or your great great grandchildren? It's estimated that over half of children do worse than their parents today. Investing in a strong safety net and high social mobility are a way to ensure that if generations from now branches of your family tree fall out of middle class they'll have a chance to climb back up again.
  - oldpersonintx 3y ago
    > Investing in a strong safety net and high social mobility are a way to ensure that if generations from now branches of your family tree fall out of middle class they'll have a chance to climb back up again. yes, and I pay six figures in tax every year so there is plenty enough from me in the community pot for you to achieve this if you instead send the money to Ukraine, thats your choice
- jwestbury 3y ago
  > as a parent, my obligation is to my family, not someone else's As a member of society, however, your obligation is to other members of society. I'm not going to argue that you're not doing that. I do think tax rates are too low on the top 10% in the US, assuming that's where you're from (seems safe) -- but the biggest shortfall is surely on the top 0.1%. The reality is, opportunity for others is objectively declining.
  - oldpersonintx 3y ago
    [flagged]
johngladtj 3y ago
Social mobility isn't an unambiguous good
- notaustinpowers 3y ago
  Nothing in this world is an unambiguous good, but social stagnation sure doesn't seem like the better option.
- abenga 3y ago
  In what ways is it harmful?
watwut 3y ago
Damper on social mobility is inequality itself and that young people can not afford flat without help. Families helping their own kids is not damper on anything. Moreover, it is completely normal behavior historically. Inheritance is a thing and always was.
Bluecobra 3y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by this. In 2010, my dad gave me $10K to help with closing costs and the down payment of my first home in addition to the money I already already had saved up. It was absolutely the right time to buy a home since it was during the great recession as I also qualified for a $10K first time homebuyers tax credit. My social mobility has been a hockey stick upward since then compared to my parents, due to going to college and having a good job.
- danpalmer 3y ago
  The fact that your parents could give you that money suggests you were already not at the bottom of the social mobility ladder. It's possible you've moved up the ladder, but it's also possible that your parents did the moving up the ladder (when home ownership was more accessible, jobs paid better), and that you haven't actually moved much from their position, even if you've got a better start in life. Many millennials currently find themselves in this position, myself included. I'm better educated than my parents (by qualification), and I earn more than them, but they own properties and cars and go on holidays frequently, because they bought houses at the right time and earned more proportionally to their costs earlier in life. I'm still very much in the same socio-economic range as my parents are now, they did the moving earlier in their lives, I'm unlikely to be able to move.

justsocrateasin 3y ago

Confused why you don't think this is a problem?? just because family will be there for you when no one else will doesn't mean they are financial liquid enough to support you with $50,000-$100,000 in cash. Clearly that is your situation but for the VAST majority of Americans that is not the case. Average home price in America is over $400,000 which means a 20% down payment is $80,000.

SaintGhurka 3y ago
>> Average home price in America is over $400,000 People just starting out aren't usually aiming for the average home. There are lots of homes and condos that are half that price - depending on location. >> which means a 20% down payment is $80,000. If you are faced with this situation, an FHA loan requires 3.5% down and you can buy with a sub-600 credit score. FHA loans are designed for first-time buyers. https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mortgages/fha-loan https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/mortgages/fha-loan

notaustinpowers 3y ago

This is a signifier that there is less social mobility within American society than in the past. The newest generation should not have to rely on the Bank of Mom & Dad for a down payment to do what Mom and Dad did without that assistance. Also, parents giving you money has zero correlation with your "good, supporting family" statement. Don't draw a comparison of two completely unrelated things. "Everyone wins", yeah expect for the people who's parents don't have a spare $60,000 to give their kids for a down payment on a home.

geitir 3y ago
Highly doubt 0 correlation
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  Anecdotally, my parents have offered to help me out with every major cost I've ever faced and living next to me is positively dreadful.
oldpersonintx 3y ago
> "Everyone wins", yeah expect for the people who's parents don't have a spare $60,000 to give their kids for a down payment on a home. my bank deposits are available to be reloaned out to people who don't have a family resource there is no real injustice here, we all contribute to collective support in many ways, from taxes to loan assistance to education and infrastructure that elevates all and provides opportunity for all you will always have some people who have an advantage others don't, that's life
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
sokoloff 3y ago
> parents giving you money has zero correlation with your "good, supporting family" How is that possible for there to be zero correlation? It seems like there's an incredibly strong bi-directional correlation between "my family is supportive to me" and "my family sometimes gives me money".

twobitshifter 3y ago

By this logic is there any problem with nepotism?

oldpersonintx 3y ago
not imho...for example, if I own a company and wish to make my son or daughter the next CEO...that is my right and my decision if I have the ownership rights to make it happen if my kids screw it up then I would lose not only my own wealth but their inheritance...so there is still risk even to the beneficiaries of nepotism I have zero qualms with people putting family first

hammock 3y ago

By this logic, 38% of young buyers have no one else there for them, but family

zeryx 3y ago

My parents died penniless in my early 20s (mid 30s now); I have friends who's parents are gifting them a Condo or Down Payment as a wedding present. Thankfully my wife and I make good income and have been saving, but the treadmill doesn't work for everyone.

Eumenes 3y ago

I agree with you 100%. I don't see how this is different from parents helping with college or your first car. Its their money, they can do what they want with it. Reading the comments here are scary, its almost like people want a gift/estate tax on down payment money gifted by family, in the name of "equity".

oldpersonintx 3y ago
I doubt most responders even believe what they are writing, they are just trying to be contrary for the sake of being contrary, which is 90% of HN

i_am_jl 3y ago

The problem isn't that family is helping, the problem is that homeownership is unattainable if you're not wealthy and don't have family with the means to help.

dkdbejwi383 3y ago

> everyone wins except those without rich parents

oldpersonintx 3y ago
and kids whose parents never cared about their homework and kids whose parents never cared if they did dumb or illegal things etc etc we don't live in a world of equal outcomes and never will I mean...you were born in the West instead of being born in a hopeless place like Gaza...how unfair!