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>and I assure they would not be using a random charging station Have you read the thread? Plenty of people are saying this risk is overblown and not to worry.

>and I assure they would not be using a random charging station Have you read the thread? Plenty of people are saying this risk is overblown and not to worry. The top 3 comments all express this sentiment. >and if you gain input you can dismiss the popup instantly in your exploit. Do you think using a mouse on an unlocked phone would go unnoticed? There's also a fair amount of disagreement over whether a mouse will work without input. We've had security researchers notice USB device attacks on computers, the same sort of attack except it will likely only hit one person. This kind of large scale attack where thousands have the chance to notice would be observed.

throwaway290 3y ago
For every argument "it's not an issue" there's 5 correct points why it is > Do you think using a mouse on an unlocked phone would go unnoticed? Certainly, it only takes a millisecond. > There's also a fair amount of disagreement over whether a mouse will work without input. 0days exist. > the same sort of attack except it will likely only hit one person Stuxnet alone is known to infect hundreds of thousands for a start, but as usual keep in mind the successful attacks are generally not found out :)
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  >It doesn't seem like the kind of attack that would be easy to hide either, unless accompanied by some zero day that bypasses the accept data transfer prompt. If your concern is zero days, nothing you do with your phone is safe. Making a big deal about this one thing seems silly. A similar thing if your concern is nation states, like in the Stuxnet attack.
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    > If your concern is zero days, nothing you do with your phone is safe. safeR. There are no absolutes in security. And not using public chargers totally will. > A similar thing if your concern is nation states If you live in the middle of USA you are probably OK but many people live in or near nation states that could totally install juice jackers centrally.
    - boomboomsubban 3y ago
      >safeR You're also safer if you leave your phone in airplane mode, or better yet off. Juice jacking is possible, but there's no evidence it's been deployed. A zeroclick attack seems like a much bigger threat, and I can't do much against that. >If you live in the middle of USA you are probably OK but many people live in or near nation states that could totally install juice jackers centrally. You're missing the point. If your adversary is a nation state, you're already screwed. They have better methods of attack than hoping you need to battery is low in some specific location. edit let's assume I run a criminal organization and want to effectively use juice jacking. My first step would be to purchase several expensive zero days, and then develop some kind of software to launch it and to assure only phones susceptible to them get targeted, otherwise people will quickly notice something's wrong. Then I need to get access to real estate in a high traffic area, where I'll need to buy electricity and run some kind of data server. Then I'll need to get people to sift through the resulting data, and the "payoff" is what, banking details or credit cards? Attacking an ATM seems way easier.
      - throwaway290 3y ago
        > You're also safer if you leave your phone in airplane mode, or better yet off. The goal is not to eliminate phone use but to use it safer. > You're missing the point. If your adversary is a nation state, you're already screwed. They have better methods of attack than hoping you need to battery is low in some specific location. Being individually targeted you'd have to do a lot more, lockdown mode and all that. Juice jacking from a charging device in a public place is a mass attack, and the measure is very simple-- don't use public USB ports. > edit let's assume I run a criminal organization and want to effectively use juice jacking. If your criminal organization is also the government then it's a bit easier than what you describe. > assure only phones susceptible to them get targeted, otherwise people will quickly notice something's wrong The attacker simply disconnects data if exploit doesn't work right away. Not many people would notice a split second of a popup.
        boomboomsubban 3y ago
        >If your criminal organization is also the government then it's a bit easier than what you describe. The real estate part is, the rest isn't. And without the financial incentive the benefit becomes unclear. Presumably spying, but you're either hoping to randomly get a high profile target or needing to trawl through a truly massive amount of data for some unknown potential benefit. There are better methods of individual targeting and mass surveillance available to the state.

throwaway290 3y ago

For every argument "it's not an issue" there's 5 correct points why it is > Do you think using a mouse on an unlocked phone would go unnoticed? Certainly, it only takes a millisecond. > There's also a fair amount of disagreement over whether a mouse will work without input. 0days exist. > the same sort of attack except it will likely only hit one person Stuxnet alone is known to infect hundreds of thousands for a start, but as usual keep in mind the successful attacks are generally not found out :)

boomboomsubban 3y ago
>It doesn't seem like the kind of attack that would be easy to hide either, unless accompanied by some zero day that bypasses the accept data transfer prompt. If your concern is zero days, nothing you do with your phone is safe. Making a big deal about this one thing seems silly. A similar thing if your concern is nation states, like in the Stuxnet attack.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  > If your concern is zero days, nothing you do with your phone is safe. safeR. There are no absolutes in security. And not using public chargers totally will. > A similar thing if your concern is nation states If you live in the middle of USA you are probably OK but many people live in or near nation states that could totally install juice jackers centrally.
  - boomboomsubban 3y ago
    >safeR You're also safer if you leave your phone in airplane mode, or better yet off. Juice jacking is possible, but there's no evidence it's been deployed. A zeroclick attack seems like a much bigger threat, and I can't do much against that. >If you live in the middle of USA you are probably OK but many people live in or near nation states that could totally install juice jackers centrally. You're missing the point. If your adversary is a nation state, you're already screwed. They have better methods of attack than hoping you need to battery is low in some specific location. edit let's assume I run a criminal organization and want to effectively use juice jacking. My first step would be to purchase several expensive zero days, and then develop some kind of software to launch it and to assure only phones susceptible to them get targeted, otherwise people will quickly notice something's wrong. Then I need to get access to real estate in a high traffic area, where I'll need to buy electricity and run some kind of data server. Then I'll need to get people to sift through the resulting data, and the "payoff" is what, banking details or credit cards? Attacking an ATM seems way easier.
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      > You're also safer if you leave your phone in airplane mode, or better yet off. The goal is not to eliminate phone use but to use it safer. > You're missing the point. If your adversary is a nation state, you're already screwed. They have better methods of attack than hoping you need to battery is low in some specific location. Being individually targeted you'd have to do a lot more, lockdown mode and all that. Juice jacking from a charging device in a public place is a mass attack, and the measure is very simple-- don't use public USB ports. > edit let's assume I run a criminal organization and want to effectively use juice jacking. If your criminal organization is also the government then it's a bit easier than what you describe. > assure only phones susceptible to them get targeted, otherwise people will quickly notice something's wrong The attacker simply disconnects data if exploit doesn't work right away. Not many people would notice a split second of a popup.
      - boomboomsubban 3y ago
        >If your criminal organization is also the government then it's a bit easier than what you describe. The real estate part is, the rest isn't. And without the financial incentive the benefit becomes unclear. Presumably spying, but you're either hoping to randomly get a high profile target or needing to trawl through a truly massive amount of data for some unknown potential benefit. There are better methods of individual targeting and mass surveillance available to the state.