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One way you could look at it is that this person's inability to afford the land value tax signals that they are not making effective use of the land and that it

One way you could look at it is that this person's inability to afford the land value tax signals that they are not making effective use of the land and that it would be in society's best interest if the land were to change hands to someone who could use it in a way that lets them afford the taxes on it.

ajsnigrutin 3y ago
You're looking at a persons home as an economic investment and not as a social thing. It's a home. Someone will live in that house. You just want to replace a poor grandma with someone who can pay more taxes, while the use of the land/house/apartment will stay the same, even with airbnb, someone will just use that apartment to sleep in. It's the society's best interest that people can afford places to live and not live under threat that some new fad will make something they already own (and need to survive) unaffordable.
- screye 3y ago
  Land value tax often goes hand in hand with lax zoning. In your example, if the grandma's house went from 200k to a 1million, then she isn't poor anymore. She is very rich. She doesn't have to leave the neighborhood. She can give her house away for redevelopment into a condo. Get the nice penthouse flat and a pretty penny on the same land. Now, she has enough liquidity to pay the land value tax, which is also lower per person because it's distributed over the whole condo. This is happening in India right now. Apartments are redeveloped into towers. Old residents get 2x the floor space and decent relocation $$ for the construction period. No one is being kicked out of their house. Most people move to another spot within a 10 minutes walk from their home for 3 years and then come back when the building is done.
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
    In my country, a previously ~100k condo apartment now costs 500k+... sometimes even less than that before (city center, no easy parking, lots of noise) and more now (airbnb).
- cultureswitch 3y ago
  If grandma owns a house in a place where people want to build an apartment block, she's not poor. By definition.
  - ajsnigrutin 3y ago
    In my country, the apartment block is already there, but the previously shitty apartment (noise, no easy parking) just became expensive because of stuff like airbnb and speculative investmnts.
Draiken 3y ago
What? I must be misunderstanding your comment. Are we seriously saying that if someone can no longer afford tax on a land they already own because the rich need to get richer, you should sell? Basically you're asking for normal people to work, get raises forever and hope nothing crazy happens that can raise land value in their neighborhood in order to keep the land they already own. No, this is not in "society's best interest". This is in the capitalist's best interests. Those are very different. Comments like these make me not want to live in this world anymore. I really hope I misunderstood the comment. Edit: removed some unnecessary harsh words.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  The entire Georgist argument is that you can’t own land, you simply rent it from society via a land tax. It’s also worth noting that George’s land value tax was devised as a way to pay a citizens dividend (the profit gets distributed evenly among all citizens) not to fund a bureaucracy as will happen here.
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  > Are we seriously saying that if someone can no longer afford tax on a land they already own because the rich need to get richer, you should sell? devil's advocate: No, not because of the rich but because of the poor. Buying a house decades ago was very possible on an average single person's salary. Nowadays, even upper income range couples have large troubles financing a house. So the situation is that you have lots of old people living in houses that they could never, ever afford at today's prices. The claim (no comment on whether it is correct or not) is that this causes massive distortion and that this proposal would fix it (doubt it, but that is the discussion). > What the f*. That is not helpful for a discussion. There is a problem stated and a (probably bad) proposal to address it. Instead of just saying "f*", address the problem and make a different proposal.
  - treis 3y ago
    Homeownership rate has not changed much over the last 60 years. Housing is still affordable overall in the US. It's only some regions that have gone nuts.

ajsnigrutin 3y ago

You're looking at a persons home as an economic investment and not as a social thing. It's a home. Someone will live in that house. You just want to replace a poor grandma with someone who can pay more taxes, while the use of the land/house/apartment will stay the same, even with airbnb, someone will just use that apartment to sleep in. It's the society's best interest that people can afford places to live and not live under threat that some new fad will make something they already own (and need to survive) unaffordable.

screye 3y ago
Land value tax often goes hand in hand with lax zoning. In your example, if the grandma's house went from 200k to a 1million, then she isn't poor anymore. She is very rich. She doesn't have to leave the neighborhood. She can give her house away for redevelopment into a condo. Get the nice penthouse flat and a pretty penny on the same land. Now, she has enough liquidity to pay the land value tax, which is also lower per person because it's distributed over the whole condo. This is happening in India right now. Apartments are redeveloped into towers. Old residents get 2x the floor space and decent relocation $$ for the construction period. No one is being kicked out of their house. Most people move to another spot within a 10 minutes walk from their home for 3 years and then come back when the building is done.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  In my country, a previously ~100k condo apartment now costs 500k+... sometimes even less than that before (city center, no easy parking, lots of noise) and more now (airbnb).
cultureswitch 3y ago
If grandma owns a house in a place where people want to build an apartment block, she's not poor. By definition.
- ajsnigrutin 3y ago
  In my country, the apartment block is already there, but the previously shitty apartment (noise, no easy parking) just became expensive because of stuff like airbnb and speculative investmnts.

Draiken 3y ago

What? I must be misunderstanding your comment. Are we seriously saying that if someone can no longer afford tax on a land they already own because the rich need to get richer, you should sell? Basically you're asking for normal people to work, get raises forever and hope nothing crazy happens that can raise land value in their neighborhood in order to keep the land they already own. No, this is not in "society's best interest". This is in the capitalist's best interests. Those are very different. Comments like these make me not want to live in this world anymore. I really hope I misunderstood the comment. Edit: removed some unnecessary harsh words.

edgyquant 3y ago
The entire Georgist argument is that you can’t own land, you simply rent it from society via a land tax. It’s also worth noting that George’s land value tax was devised as a way to pay a citizens dividend (the profit gets distributed evenly among all citizens) not to fund a bureaucracy as will happen here.
diffeomorphism 3y ago
> Are we seriously saying that if someone can no longer afford tax on a land they already own because the rich need to get richer, you should sell? devil's advocate: No, not because of the rich but because of the poor. Buying a house decades ago was very possible on an average single person's salary. Nowadays, even upper income range couples have large troubles financing a house. So the situation is that you have lots of old people living in houses that they could never, ever afford at today's prices. The claim (no comment on whether it is correct or not) is that this causes massive distortion and that this proposal would fix it (doubt it, but that is the discussion). > What the f*. That is not helpful for a discussion. There is a problem stated and a (probably bad) proposal to address it. Instead of just saying "f*", address the problem and make a different proposal.
- treis 3y ago
  Homeownership rate has not changed much over the last 60 years. Housing is still affordable overall in the US. It's only some regions that have gone nuts.