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> 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived Why? What is the reason for that? You will not care about it when you're dead

> 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived Why? What is the reason for that? You will not care about it when you're dead and right now you might spend a lot of resources for that, decreasing your quality of life, which is everything that you have. > I try to take actions that contribute to the well being of others or humanity as a whole whenever I can. Same as above. It's probably very hard, without any benefits to you on Earth. > I think we can all have well being as a goal without resorting to any unsubstantiated religious dogma. We probably can indeed, but I do not understand the logic of pursuing long-term benefits for everyone while sacrificing immediate benefits for yourself. Is this just an instinctive decision? > I’m curious to know what you think any of this has to do with “the meaning of the universe” (whatever that means). The Universe looks extremely complicated and unlikely to me. It's laws are fine tuned to make it as complicated as possible. The more we learn about how it works, the more questions appear. Whenever we think that we understand most of it, new discoveries turn everything upside down. The Universe is almost designed in such a way to create humans, if not on Earth then somewhere else. Could this be the meaning of the Universe? Then, there might also be the meaning of humanity, too. Another angle to this. Imagine there is a possibility to create a simulation of the Universe. If someone could do it, then they likely run many simulations simultaneously, just like people do. Then, the probability for you to be born in a simulation is much larger than in reality. Offtopic: >purpose of my life, at a biological level it’s to procreate At this point, this purpose goes against the well-being of humanity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/

angoragoats 3y ago
I aim for well-being because I think that whatever is beneficial to others is likely to be beneficial to me as well, for example if I help my neighbors out when they are in trouble, they’re in turn more likely to help me. There are a few common theist and theist-adjacent arguments in your post including the fine-tuning argument and the simulation hypothesis, all of which I reject due to lack of evidence in their favor. I still don’t understand what you mean when you’re trying to identify “the meaning of the universe” or of humanity. The universe is all that we can see, nothing more. To try to assign meaning to it is, to me, exactly like trying to assign meaning to the Sun, or a rock, or the Andromeda galaxy, just at a larger scale.
- fsflover 3y ago
  > I aim for well-being because I think that whatever is beneficial to others is likely to be beneficial to me as well My question was explicitly about cases when you have no benefit whatsoever in this life. > theist-adjacent arguments in your post Yes, how else can you argue about "the meaning of the universe" otherwise? Science simply does not try to answer such questions, it asks other questions. Of course there is no evidence for any of that and you have a good reason to reject it. But by rejecting it you are also, in my understanding, rejecting the reason to help the humanity whenever that is against your own goals (like with having children!).
  - angoragoats 3y ago
    > My question was explicitly about cases when you have no benefit whatsoever in this life. I’m sorry, I didn’t get that from your post. Can you give an example case where I’d have no benefit whatsoever? > Yes, how else can you argue about "the meaning of the universe" otherwise? Can you please define “the meaning of the universe” for me? I stated previously that I hold no beliefs about that, and that is primarily because I don’t understand what you and others mean by that phrase. Other than stating I hold no beliefs about it I have not been arguing for/against it, again, because I don’t know what it means for the universe to have a meaning. If you believe the universe has meaning, can you please first define what that means, and then cite evidence in support of it?
    - fsflover 3y ago
      > I’m sorry, I didn’t get that from your post. Sorry for being unclear. > Can you give an example case where I’d have no benefit whatsoever? Let's say you donate money to African children or survivors of an earthquake, or partiipate in a project that will not have any results in your lifetime (like Voyager maybe?). Or you go to a climate demonstration while being old, without any chance to see any consequence of it. > Can you please define “the meaning of the universe” for me? I guess there can be no scientific definition here. But imagine there was someone who created the Universe and tuned it for humanity to appear and develop, in a hope of having a good companion. In such case, the meaning of the Universe would be to eventually give a companion. Or maybe, there was nobody, but the Universe still appeared in such a way that more and more complicated structures are created infinitely. What is a purpose of a living cell? It is to collect, process, and transfer further information about the environment (to survive). Same for human DNA, and maybe for humans, too. We can process information much more efficiently with our tools already and enter the informational age - maybe for a reason? To me knowledge is the meaning of the Universe/humanity, and only knowledge will reveal if there is something more here.

angoragoats 3y ago

I aim for well-being because I think that whatever is beneficial to others is likely to be beneficial to me as well, for example if I help my neighbors out when they are in trouble, they’re in turn more likely to help me. There are a few common theist and theist-adjacent arguments in your post including the fine-tuning argument and the simulation hypothesis, all of which I reject due to lack of evidence in their favor. I still don’t understand what you mean when you’re trying to identify “the meaning of the universe” or of humanity. The universe is all that we can see, nothing more. To try to assign meaning to it is, to me, exactly like trying to assign meaning to the Sun, or a rock, or the Andromeda galaxy, just at a larger scale.

fsflover 3y ago
> I aim for well-being because I think that whatever is beneficial to others is likely to be beneficial to me as well My question was explicitly about cases when you have no benefit whatsoever in this life. > theist-adjacent arguments in your post Yes, how else can you argue about "the meaning of the universe" otherwise? Science simply does not try to answer such questions, it asks other questions. Of course there is no evidence for any of that and you have a good reason to reject it. But by rejecting it you are also, in my understanding, rejecting the reason to help the humanity whenever that is against your own goals (like with having children!).
- angoragoats 3y ago
  > My question was explicitly about cases when you have no benefit whatsoever in this life. I’m sorry, I didn’t get that from your post. Can you give an example case where I’d have no benefit whatsoever? > Yes, how else can you argue about "the meaning of the universe" otherwise? Can you please define “the meaning of the universe” for me? I stated previously that I hold no beliefs about that, and that is primarily because I don’t understand what you and others mean by that phrase. Other than stating I hold no beliefs about it I have not been arguing for/against it, again, because I don’t know what it means for the universe to have a meaning. If you believe the universe has meaning, can you please first define what that means, and then cite evidence in support of it?
  - fsflover 3y ago
    > I’m sorry, I didn’t get that from your post. Sorry for being unclear. > Can you give an example case where I’d have no benefit whatsoever? Let's say you donate money to African children or survivors of an earthquake, or partiipate in a project that will not have any results in your lifetime (like Voyager maybe?). Or you go to a climate demonstration while being old, without any chance to see any consequence of it. > Can you please define “the meaning of the universe” for me? I guess there can be no scientific definition here. But imagine there was someone who created the Universe and tuned it for humanity to appear and develop, in a hope of having a good companion. In such case, the meaning of the Universe would be to eventually give a companion. Or maybe, there was nobody, but the Universe still appeared in such a way that more and more complicated structures are created infinitely. What is a purpose of a living cell? It is to collect, process, and transfer further information about the environment (to survive). Same for human DNA, and maybe for humans, too. We can process information much more efficiently with our tools already and enter the informational age - maybe for a reason? To me knowledge is the meaning of the Universe/humanity, and only knowledge will reveal if there is something more here.