4 ms·

I have 10 direct reports across 2 teams, with responsibility for a number of actual deliverable work pieces external to these staff. 10 direct reports is about

I have 10 direct reports across 2 teams, with responsibility for a number of actual deliverable work pieces external to these staff. 10 direct reports is about half a week's work at a bare minimum without development, process improvement, etc. 20 is insane and would lead to skill atrophy and team dissatisfaction in short order.

baby 3y ago
Why does managing the team takes so much work? Do you need to hold the hand of all your reports?
- mertd 3y ago
  It depends on the nature of the work but technical work (which -like most people here- is I assume what we're talking about) requires a lot of time investment to truly understand and give meaningful feedback.
- monkeydreams 3y ago
  My team have a very wide and complex domain of work; essentially we cover all of the domain of public health administration - patient management through to billing through to regulatory reporting, etc, etc. My team can be presenting formal advice for changes to statutory inpatient reporting one day, then troubleshooting a billing algorithm the next day, and then writing a FHIR parser the day after. In light of this I budget the following time for each of them: 1 hour a fortnight for general chat (what I refer to as temperature taking) to see where each of them are at in terms of morale, etc. 1/2 hour a fortnight for 1:1 catch-up covering administrative requirements (leave, review of metrics, etc, etc). 1 hour a fortnight (1/2 per week) for metric collection and review; are they having trouble with specific elements of their domain, are certain managers, stakeholders, customers, etc, holding things up. Their work tickets vary wildly in complexity and scope so this is the absolute minimum I can spend to know where each person is up to professionally speaking. 1 hour a fortnight for mentoring, training, etc. Generally speaking the more skilled staff will contact me more often to "pick my brain" regarding how to approach certain technical/personnal challenges, how to link data across our datasets, who to contact for advice on this or that regulatory or statutory requirement. And about half an hour per person, per fortnight reviewing their changes or service requests as I am primary CAB representative for my products - and these items are key outputs of the work they deliver. So, in essence, four hours per team member per fortnight. Very little hand-holding for such a widely dispersed team, and they remain engaged and focused on their tasks with minimum disruption.
- akie 3y ago
  I have a team of 13. It's a lot of work. One-on-ones, setting direction, making plans for the coming period, talking and negotiating with stakeholders, scrum ceremonies, quality control, helping people grow, resolving conflicts - it never ends. I enjoy it though.
  - muro 3y ago
    There is a religion of weekly 1:1s that preaches a lot of wasted time.
    - akie 3y ago
      I do them bi-weekly, but it still takes up a lot of time. However, if you don't do them, people will feel like they're not being heard and they have no scheduled semi-informal way to communicate with me. So I will never hear their worries or concerns, I don't know what they're struggling with, I won't hear their ideas for improvements, etc. I think they're super useful, especially in a mostly-remote context.
    - nrawe 3y ago
      Like all things, if it's done as a cargo-cult activity, then yes it can sap a lot of time for little reward. However, when done well, a 1:1 can be a high-value activity. I'd agree with you that weekly can sometimes be the wrong cadence; some individuals will find that an encroachment. I set the goal with my reports that they own the 1:1 meeting invite and can set the cadence as they see fit, within some prescribed limits. That has tended to have good results.
- nrawe 3y ago
  Managing people properly takes time. For example, a 30 min 1:1 with the report looking at their wellbeing, motivation, challenges, career goals should be a weekly task. The 30 mins is really 45 mins because notes need to be made following so that there is audit trail, and clarity of expectations for both parties. QoS is important so they can't be shoved back to back, otherwise one will find actively concentrating difficult after a while, so that's really 1hr per team member per week. That adds up pretty quickly. Add in coaching sessions (min 1hr) on specific problems, analysis of team performance, handling of fires, meeting facilitation... This is all before you get to your own work. Doing engineering management well is a tough job. People are complex and their needs likewise. Sometimes, it pretty much is holding someones hand. I've coached juniors to seniors and it's a lot of work, feedback, questioning, teaching.
  - UK-AL 3y ago
    Seems like a very paternalistic style of management.
    - nrawe 3y ago
      One could say that, sure. I'm yet to see an alternative that offers better outcomes... In fact, the alternatives I've seen/lived through have only offered significantly worse outcomes (both personally and for the organisations).
  - wenebego 3y ago
    >This is all before you get to your own work Isnt all of that your own work, as a manager?
    - nrawe 3y ago
      That point is quite variable. In some cases, yes, that's the whole job. In others, that can be a split e.g. some EM roles are 20/80 heads down to heads up.

baby 3y ago

Why does managing the team takes so much work? Do you need to hold the hand of all your reports?

mertd 3y ago
It depends on the nature of the work but technical work (which -like most people here- is I assume what we're talking about) requires a lot of time investment to truly understand and give meaningful feedback.
monkeydreams 3y ago
My team have a very wide and complex domain of work; essentially we cover all of the domain of public health administration - patient management through to billing through to regulatory reporting, etc, etc. My team can be presenting formal advice for changes to statutory inpatient reporting one day, then troubleshooting a billing algorithm the next day, and then writing a FHIR parser the day after. In light of this I budget the following time for each of them: 1 hour a fortnight for general chat (what I refer to as temperature taking) to see where each of them are at in terms of morale, etc. 1/2 hour a fortnight for 1:1 catch-up covering administrative requirements (leave, review of metrics, etc, etc). 1 hour a fortnight (1/2 per week) for metric collection and review; are they having trouble with specific elements of their domain, are certain managers, stakeholders, customers, etc, holding things up. Their work tickets vary wildly in complexity and scope so this is the absolute minimum I can spend to know where each person is up to professionally speaking. 1 hour a fortnight for mentoring, training, etc. Generally speaking the more skilled staff will contact me more often to "pick my brain" regarding how to approach certain technical/personnal challenges, how to link data across our datasets, who to contact for advice on this or that regulatory or statutory requirement. And about half an hour per person, per fortnight reviewing their changes or service requests as I am primary CAB representative for my products - and these items are key outputs of the work they deliver. So, in essence, four hours per team member per fortnight. Very little hand-holding for such a widely dispersed team, and they remain engaged and focused on their tasks with minimum disruption.
akie 3y ago
I have a team of 13. It's a lot of work. One-on-ones, setting direction, making plans for the coming period, talking and negotiating with stakeholders, scrum ceremonies, quality control, helping people grow, resolving conflicts - it never ends. I enjoy it though.
- muro 3y ago
  There is a religion of weekly 1:1s that preaches a lot of wasted time.
  - akie 3y ago
    I do them bi-weekly, but it still takes up a lot of time. However, if you don't do them, people will feel like they're not being heard and they have no scheduled semi-informal way to communicate with me. So I will never hear their worries or concerns, I don't know what they're struggling with, I won't hear their ideas for improvements, etc. I think they're super useful, especially in a mostly-remote context.
  - nrawe 3y ago
    Like all things, if it's done as a cargo-cult activity, then yes it can sap a lot of time for little reward. However, when done well, a 1:1 can be a high-value activity. I'd agree with you that weekly can sometimes be the wrong cadence; some individuals will find that an encroachment. I set the goal with my reports that they own the 1:1 meeting invite and can set the cadence as they see fit, within some prescribed limits. That has tended to have good results.
nrawe 3y ago
Managing people properly takes time. For example, a 30 min 1:1 with the report looking at their wellbeing, motivation, challenges, career goals should be a weekly task. The 30 mins is really 45 mins because notes need to be made following so that there is audit trail, and clarity of expectations for both parties. QoS is important so they can't be shoved back to back, otherwise one will find actively concentrating difficult after a while, so that's really 1hr per team member per week. That adds up pretty quickly. Add in coaching sessions (min 1hr) on specific problems, analysis of team performance, handling of fires, meeting facilitation... This is all before you get to your own work. Doing engineering management well is a tough job. People are complex and their needs likewise. Sometimes, it pretty much is holding someones hand. I've coached juniors to seniors and it's a lot of work, feedback, questioning, teaching.
- UK-AL 3y ago
  Seems like a very paternalistic style of management.
  - nrawe 3y ago
    One could say that, sure. I'm yet to see an alternative that offers better outcomes... In fact, the alternatives I've seen/lived through have only offered significantly worse outcomes (both personally and for the organisations).
- wenebego 3y ago
  >This is all before you get to your own work Isnt all of that your own work, as a manager?
  - nrawe 3y ago
    That point is quite variable. In some cases, yes, that's the whole job. In others, that can be a split e.g. some EM roles are 20/80 heads down to heads up.