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Last two paragraphs first: You are making a logic error here. A human at a certain level of (whatever you want to call it, productivity, success, wealth, whatev
by snapplebobapple 3y ago
Last two paragraphs first: You are making a logic error here. A human at a certain level of (whatever you want to call it, productivity, success, wealth, whatever) will want a certain lifestyle level and will use vastly more resources to achieve that lifestyle in a less dense city. You can see that comparing pretty much any set of cities in the world if you stratify by income and look at resource usage/co2 output/whatever. Environmental cost of importing resources is also pretty low as long as you have good transportation methods in use (i.e. shipping or train with trucks minimized). So, if you actually want minimize impact the correct thing to do is to expand and densify cities until the decrease in environmental damage per capita from increasing density equals the increase in environmental damage from importing resources. This means the best setup is a dense city with a decent resource feeder area around it, not a self sufficient area with a less dense/more suburban city.
Now for the first paragraph: This is kind of the point because maximizing use generally means more density, which means more opportunity to minimize use elsewhere. I did outline one situation that I thought was unfair and should be addressed, which is the situation where you buy land zoned one way with a much lower value only to have it zoned another way on you that makes it a lot more valuable. Other than that specific situation, I don't agree with you that your first paragraph is a problem, it's a positive feature.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoI'm honestly not sure if the logical error is on me there. If a majority of people honestly believe that humans are causing serious harm to the planet and still set a high bar for a certain level of lifestyle, environmental impact be damned, I think that's the error. As far as shipping goes, it can definitely be comparably affordable to ship in products. Though you still have to factor in costs of everything from making and maintaining those vehicles, the oil and gas that moves them, and the costs on the area that actually produced the products. My point isn't that everything should be magically fixed with more rural living or a perfect balance of density in cities. I'm simply trying to raise the other side to point out that things aren't simple or clean enough to actually run the math on whether dense cities are better or worse at reducing impact on the environment. There are simply too many factors and hidden costs along the way to calculate accurately.