4 ms·

First, most places in the US at least already have a form of property tax. So you should be comparing LVT to property tax, not LVT to no tax. So most the above

First, most places in the US at least already have a form of property tax. So you should be comparing LVT to property tax, not LVT to no tax. So most the above doesn't apply. But even if you did use your example above. Imagine as well there is someone else trying to open a fancy large bookstore containing as well hangouts like cafe, a bar and lecture halls for reading and book discussion. Their main draw is foot traffic and to be a neighborhood lounge where people will stroll by and stop in to pass some time about a subject they like. They also want use of the same land, and for them the downtown location will also benefit their employees but critically it is also extremely important for their expected customers. For them, they would profit more from their location downtown and wouldn't likely be able to stay in business in the exurban location. So they would be willing to pay more for that dense urban location because it largely benefits the greater economic activity and better use of the locaiton - they would correctly outbid the manufacturer who can open a manufacturing plant just about anywhere and only marginally benefits from being in the dense urban location. So in result if the LVT means less manufacturing in downtown (where it really isn't needed), and more businesses can operate where they benefit from the density then that's a plus for society and LVT working as is should. And even all of tht said, neither of these are really the main examples to show the true benefit of LVT.

injeolmi_love 3y ago
Remember when reviewing the impacts of a new policy, they are always at the margin. So the appropriate situation to imagine for your bookstore is one where the benefits of land in the core are slightly greater than benefits from land in the periphery. Since LVT makes land in the core more expensive due to taxes, on the margin all businesses and residences would migrate towards the periphery. Property tax creates its own distortions, just like all taxes. But it is less distortive since going back to the example of a manufactury or a bookstore, no matter where they locate the property tax changes less than a land value tax, meaning the decision on where to locate is based on efficiency rather than taxes.
- BoiledCabbage 3y ago
  You're still muddling two distinct concepts together. Let's start with a simpler case where it is easier for people to reason about. There is a single lot in the urban core. There are two proposed businesses vying for the lot. The first is an empty parking lot, the second is a two story parking garage. Under a property tax, the second group would be taxed for the improvements of building the above ground garage they would be taxed on economic activity - that is a bad disincentive for society. Under an LVT they would not be taxed for improving the property, there would be 0 marginal tax on economic improvement of the land. Now where it may not have been profitable previously to add the garage it now is. That is what you want. You have a market for this property, and it is now beneficial to be sold to the buyer with plans for the best economic use of the property. A second example. Imaging a single city block split into lots. The city changes from a property tax to a LVT. The amount of money they collect from this block stays the same - but to change they will reduce the taxes on improved lots and raise the taxes on unimproved lots. Now those who improve their lots are no longer subsidising the free riders who are sitting on unimproved lots. Again you are supporting beneficial economic improvements and their activty instead of penalizing it via a property tax. The case you are thinking of, you are using the phrase "marginal" but you are not applying marginal reasoning. Marginal implies a small change with all else being equal. You cannot apply marginal analysis to land as land is not substitutible - there is not "margin" between being in a dense urban center and in the exurbs. There can be more buyers for a single plot of land. Enough buyers that they can be though of as substitutible. There are not more sellers for a single plot of land - you can't create more land, or produce more land with those characteristics of that dense urban center. Marginal analysis from the perspective of the buyer fails here and that's the mistake. > no matter where they locate the property tax changes less than a land value tax, meaning the decision on where to locate is based on efficiency rather than taxes. Again this is thinking that second order effects are first order. The first order effect here is the price of the property. The price of the property in the urban center will at least 2x-3x the price of that same property in the exurbs. It will dwarf any differnece in method of taxes. Even if LVT were 3x the property tax most property taxes are roughly 1% of the purchase price per year. Price not tax is the dominant factor and the reason why that comparison you made isn't valid. Within a price band yes tax will impact decision making, across price bands price obviously dominates. And tax dominating within a priceband is a good thing because we have now changed the policy to no longer tax economic improvements to land - so the tax policy is actually better. It's improving behavior at the margin.

injeolmi_love 3y ago

Remember when reviewing the impacts of a new policy, they are always at the margin. So the appropriate situation to imagine for your bookstore is one where the benefits of land in the core are slightly greater than benefits from land in the periphery. Since LVT makes land in the core more expensive due to taxes, on the margin all businesses and residences would migrate towards the periphery. Property tax creates its own distortions, just like all taxes. But it is less distortive since going back to the example of a manufactury or a bookstore, no matter where they locate the property tax changes less than a land value tax, meaning the decision on where to locate is based on efficiency rather than taxes.

BoiledCabbage 3y ago
You're still muddling two distinct concepts together. Let's start with a simpler case where it is easier for people to reason about. There is a single lot in the urban core. There are two proposed businesses vying for the lot. The first is an empty parking lot, the second is a two story parking garage. Under a property tax, the second group would be taxed for the improvements of building the above ground garage they would be taxed on economic activity - that is a bad disincentive for society. Under an LVT they would not be taxed for improving the property, there would be 0 marginal tax on economic improvement of the land. Now where it may not have been profitable previously to add the garage it now is. That is what you want. You have a market for this property, and it is now beneficial to be sold to the buyer with plans for the best economic use of the property. A second example. Imaging a single city block split into lots. The city changes from a property tax to a LVT. The amount of money they collect from this block stays the same - but to change they will reduce the taxes on improved lots and raise the taxes on unimproved lots. Now those who improve their lots are no longer subsidising the free riders who are sitting on unimproved lots. Again you are supporting beneficial economic improvements and their activty instead of penalizing it via a property tax. The case you are thinking of, you are using the phrase "marginal" but you are not applying marginal reasoning. Marginal implies a small change with all else being equal. You cannot apply marginal analysis to land as land is not substitutible - there is not "margin" between being in a dense urban center and in the exurbs. There can be more buyers for a single plot of land. Enough buyers that they can be though of as substitutible. There are not more sellers for a single plot of land - you can't create more land, or produce more land with those characteristics of that dense urban center. Marginal analysis from the perspective of the buyer fails here and that's the mistake. > no matter where they locate the property tax changes less than a land value tax, meaning the decision on where to locate is based on efficiency rather than taxes. Again this is thinking that second order effects are first order. The first order effect here is the price of the property. The price of the property in the urban center will at least 2x-3x the price of that same property in the exurbs. It will dwarf any differnece in method of taxes. Even if LVT were 3x the property tax most property taxes are roughly 1% of the purchase price per year. Price not tax is the dominant factor and the reason why that comparison you made isn't valid. Within a price band yes tax will impact decision making, across price bands price obviously dominates. And tax dominating within a priceband is a good thing because we have now changed the policy to no longer tax economic improvements to land - so the tax policy is actually better. It's improving behavior at the margin.