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You know what would be awesome, an electric minivan. The id.buzz looks great, but has low range and lacks a lot of nice amenities. The Canoo looks really great

You know what would be awesome, an electric minivan. The id.buzz looks great, but has low range and lacks a lot of nice amenities. The Canoo looks really great, but low range and I can’t tell if the company is actually ever going to produce their van. It seems like rivian has a platform that could make a great minivan, 400 mile range, maybe an adventure style one. Where’s the Chrysler all electric Pacifica? This is the class of vehicle that we need in my family.

decafninja 3y ago
There probably isn’t one for the same reason minivans in general are unpopular. You could say the Model X is pretty close to being a minivan. Granted it’s nearly six figures in price.
- bluejekyll 3y ago
  One of the things going on in the market is CAFE rules in the US encouraging trucks and suvs as it allows them to make a larger profit than standard pedestrian vehicles. The car companies market these vehicles very aggressively. I thought that was about gas engines, but because there are so many on the road now people want bigger vehicles to be “safer” from everyone else on the street, which is a vicious cycle. The minivan was very popular until car companies started pushing the suv as a way around CAFE. The thing we need to do is remove the CAFE exemptions for trucks, and this problem might start correcting itself.
  - toast0 3y ago
    Pretty sure we did remove CAFE exemptions for trucks and it made things worse. Unified CAFE standards by footprint mean small trucks are unsellable, a 4 cylinder, single cab, 6 foot bed truck is all the truck a lot of people need, but they don't get enough mpg for CAFE, so make it wider, longer, and give it a bigger engine, and make it taller while you're at it.
    - bluejekyll 3y ago
      Hm, I know that the Obama admin set more stringent standards, and then the Trump admin reduced them, did the truck exemption get removed? Here’s the Biden admins rules, which really seems like putting lipstick on a pig at this point, “ The rule’s impact would vary among different types of vehicles. Mileage requirements for passenger cars would rise 2 percent a year from 2027 to 2032, and 4 percent a year for light trucks and SUVs over the same time period. The requirement for heavy-duty pickup trucks and vans would rise 10 percent a year starting in 2030.”
      - toast0 3y ago
        Ok, I looked again, and I was fairly widely off. Small footprint trucks (s-10) do have a very high mpg target for a truck, but it's still less than a car of the same footprint. Not far enough lower to encourage their production, of course. Large 'small trucks' like the current Ranger have a target that's lower than a car of similar footprint (which is the largest footprint listed for cars); and larger trucks have even lower targets.
  - decafninja 3y ago
    I disagree that that is the primary reason for the minivan’s demise. They were plain and simply viewed as supremely uncool, even during the height of their popularity. Most people bought them because they had to, not because they were beloved. Now, the typical modern CUV isn’t exactly considered cool either, but they are the byproduct evolved from SUVs that were often seen as being cooler than minivans. Ironically real SUVs have become a small niche product too nowadays.
beached_whale 3y ago
100% yes please. They have so much room and height, good visibilty, and aren’t built like tanks to mow down pedestrians, cyclists and other vehicals.
acchow 3y ago
Americans vehicle choice is like 70% about the aesthetics, which makes minivans unpopular (and SUVs took over instead).
- kyrra 3y ago
  As an owner of both, I'd say this video sums up my views on minivans. https://youtu.be/NvDSTGx9E_s https://youtu.be/NvDSTGx9E_s TLDW: once you have 3 kids, they are amazing.
- SantalBlush 3y ago
  An SUV is a minivan that men aren't ashamed to drive. That's why they took over.
  - acchow 3y ago
    Except they have much less space inside
    - NikolaNovak 3y ago
      And less practical. And drive worse. Seriously, slide doors are amazing! Wish that Mazda 5 found bigger success. (on aside, and this may be dangerous territory to discuss, but in my extended group of friends, it is men/husbands that are championing minivans on their practicality, and women/wives resisting the perception of "soccer mom image",even though I think that's a 20 year old stereotype - soccer moms have been driving wildly impractical SUVs for decades! My group is largely functionality-oriented nerds of one sort or another, so other groups of men may well have significantly different prerogatives and are more "yargh big strong SUV yargh!" :)
    - jwells89 3y ago
      The cramped nature of small to midsize SUVs seriously dampens their appeal to me. It's ridiculous that such bulky vehicles have a hard time besting a tiny Honda Fit or Toyota Matrix when it comes to interior space.
  - 3y ago
dehrmann 3y ago
There are ~4 minivans on the market because there isn't lots of demand or profit there. Don't expect an EV in that segment any time soon.
brightball 3y ago
We own a plug-in hybrid Pacifica and it’s fantastic. Refill the gas tank every 3 months or so.
toast0 3y ago
> Where’s the Chrysler all electric Pacifica? This is the class of vehicle that we need in my family. There's nowhere to stuff the batteries you'd need. (Modern) minivans have a low ride height, and not a lot of room under the floor. The hybrid Pacifica puts its batteries in the underfloor storage area where middle seats would fold in on a gas only van. The volume used for the engine and transaxle isn't going to get you very much additional range. Ford has an e-transit commercial offering, but range is only 126 miles, fine for around town and a lot of contractor work, but we do a lot of weekend trips in our van where that small of range would be problematic. Wikipedia talks about an e-Transit Custom with estimated range of 263 miles to start production in second half of 2023. If that turns up, it might work for you.
BHSPitMonkey 3y ago
Information about the coming Volvo EM90 minivan seems to have come out today: https://electrek.co/2023/10/16/volvo-em90-images-leaked-revealing-first-electric-minivan/ https://electrek.co/2023/10/16/volvo-em90-images-leaked-reve...

decafninja 3y ago

There probably isn’t one for the same reason minivans in general are unpopular. You could say the Model X is pretty close to being a minivan. Granted it’s nearly six figures in price.

bluejekyll 3y ago
One of the things going on in the market is CAFE rules in the US encouraging trucks and suvs as it allows them to make a larger profit than standard pedestrian vehicles. The car companies market these vehicles very aggressively. I thought that was about gas engines, but because there are so many on the road now people want bigger vehicles to be “safer” from everyone else on the street, which is a vicious cycle. The minivan was very popular until car companies started pushing the suv as a way around CAFE. The thing we need to do is remove the CAFE exemptions for trucks, and this problem might start correcting itself.
- toast0 3y ago
  Pretty sure we did remove CAFE exemptions for trucks and it made things worse. Unified CAFE standards by footprint mean small trucks are unsellable, a 4 cylinder, single cab, 6 foot bed truck is all the truck a lot of people need, but they don't get enough mpg for CAFE, so make it wider, longer, and give it a bigger engine, and make it taller while you're at it.
  - bluejekyll 3y ago
    Hm, I know that the Obama admin set more stringent standards, and then the Trump admin reduced them, did the truck exemption get removed? Here’s the Biden admins rules, which really seems like putting lipstick on a pig at this point, “ The rule’s impact would vary among different types of vehicles. Mileage requirements for passenger cars would rise 2 percent a year from 2027 to 2032, and 4 percent a year for light trucks and SUVs over the same time period. The requirement for heavy-duty pickup trucks and vans would rise 10 percent a year starting in 2030.”
    - toast0 3y ago
      Ok, I looked again, and I was fairly widely off. Small footprint trucks (s-10) do have a very high mpg target for a truck, but it's still less than a car of the same footprint. Not far enough lower to encourage their production, of course. Large 'small trucks' like the current Ranger have a target that's lower than a car of similar footprint (which is the largest footprint listed for cars); and larger trucks have even lower targets.
- decafninja 3y ago
  I disagree that that is the primary reason for the minivan’s demise. They were plain and simply viewed as supremely uncool, even during the height of their popularity. Most people bought them because they had to, not because they were beloved. Now, the typical modern CUV isn’t exactly considered cool either, but they are the byproduct evolved from SUVs that were often seen as being cooler than minivans. Ironically real SUVs have become a small niche product too nowadays.

beached_whale 3y ago

100% yes please. They have so much room and height, good visibilty, and aren’t built like tanks to mow down pedestrians, cyclists and other vehicals.

acchow 3y ago

Americans vehicle choice is like 70% about the aesthetics, which makes minivans unpopular (and SUVs took over instead).

kyrra 3y ago
As an owner of both, I'd say this video sums up my views on minivans. https://youtu.be/NvDSTGx9E_s https://youtu.be/NvDSTGx9E_s TLDW: once you have 3 kids, they are amazing.
SantalBlush 3y ago
An SUV is a minivan that men aren't ashamed to drive. That's why they took over.
- acchow 3y ago
  Except they have much less space inside
  - NikolaNovak 3y ago
    And less practical. And drive worse. Seriously, slide doors are amazing! Wish that Mazda 5 found bigger success. (on aside, and this may be dangerous territory to discuss, but in my extended group of friends, it is men/husbands that are championing minivans on their practicality, and women/wives resisting the perception of "soccer mom image",even though I think that's a 20 year old stereotype - soccer moms have been driving wildly impractical SUVs for decades! My group is largely functionality-oriented nerds of one sort or another, so other groups of men may well have significantly different prerogatives and are more "yargh big strong SUV yargh!" :)
  - jwells89 3y ago
    The cramped nature of small to midsize SUVs seriously dampens their appeal to me. It's ridiculous that such bulky vehicles have a hard time besting a tiny Honda Fit or Toyota Matrix when it comes to interior space.
- 3y ago

dehrmann 3y ago

There are ~4 minivans on the market because there isn't lots of demand or profit there. Don't expect an EV in that segment any time soon.

brightball 3y ago

We own a plug-in hybrid Pacifica and it’s fantastic. Refill the gas tank every 3 months or so.

toast0 3y ago

> Where’s the Chrysler all electric Pacifica? This is the class of vehicle that we need in my family. There's nowhere to stuff the batteries you'd need. (Modern) minivans have a low ride height, and not a lot of room under the floor. The hybrid Pacifica puts its batteries in the underfloor storage area where middle seats would fold in on a gas only van. The volume used for the engine and transaxle isn't going to get you very much additional range. Ford has an e-transit commercial offering, but range is only 126 miles, fine for around town and a lot of contractor work, but we do a lot of weekend trips in our van where that small of range would be problematic. Wikipedia talks about an e-Transit Custom with estimated range of 263 miles to start production in second half of 2023. If that turns up, it might work for you.

BHSPitMonkey 3y ago

Information about the coming Volvo EM90 minivan seems to have come out today: https://electrek.co/2023/10/16/volvo-em90-images-leaked-revealing-first-electric-minivan/ https://electrek.co/2023/10/16/volvo-em90-images-leaked-reve...