4 ms·

Oh man, I was hoping that this would be one of those things where they tax land to encourage new building, but it's just another city hurting for revenue lookin

Oh man, I was hoping that this would be one of those things where they tax land to encourage new building, but it's just another city hurting for revenue looking to squeeze it's population a little more. Not that it won't spur development. It will. But not as much as anyone hopes. They have to eliminate taxes on all improvements to the land and tax the land itself only. Also remove code and zoning restrictions on it. They could rebuild the city if they got serious about it.

dheera 3y ago
Yep, if I own something I'd better own it. I shouldn't have to pay rent for owning land, or pay rent for owning a house. I'll just keep renting, I guess, since it makes no difference.
- Gigachad 3y ago
  >I shouldn't have to pay rent for owning land That land is provided ongoing services, security, and utilities which cost money each year to maintain. Ownership is not some fundamental law of physics. It's a made up concept which is defined however the society you live in wants to define it.
  - dheera 3y ago
    > That land is provided ongoing services, security, and utilities which cost money each year to maintain Yeah, and I already pay PG&E, Comcrap, and whoever else is maintaining those services, I don't need to pay it again to the IRS. The IRS wouldn't do jack shit on land I own.
    - selectodude 3y ago
      Good news, the IRS doesn’t levy property taxes.
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      The IRS has nothing to do with property taxes. Property taxes mainly go to your town and some to your state. They mainly fund your local schools, streets, parks, maintenance, etc. Do you think all these things just magically exist?
      - dheera 3y ago
        Same thing, it's a bunch of inefficient brats taking my money and not giving me that amount of value in return. I could do things much more efficiently with the same amount of money. Hence, owning property isn't attractive to me at all right now unless they can stop taxing it.
        mrep 3y ago
        Except the people who are renting you the place you live in are probably doing so for a profit which accounts for the property taxes and thus you are still effectively paying a property tax regardless of whether you buy or rent a place to live.
        nemo44x 3y ago
        You sound like a great community member! Where I live we see tremendous value in the property taxes we pay. The kids get a quality education, the parks are well maintained, the streets are good and the walkways are clean. It’s not cheap but it’s all accounted for in a public ledger. And if you don’t like it you’re able to run for office to change it. Look - I’m with you when it comes to government inefficiency, corruption, etc. the further from home the worse it is. At least property taxes go into my community and we directly benefit. It makes a place desirable.
        dheera 3y ago
        You see where I live, cars get smashed all the time, and the police does nothing about it. They just sit on their lazy asses. Property taxes where I live are also some of the highest in the state.
        3y ago
    - brutusborn 3y ago
      If the Federal government builds a highway that increases your land value, why should you get the windfall from any capital gains? In this case the IRS collecting LVT is just recouping the investment they have made improving your land for you.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  How has property managed to get you to defend such an extreme version of it without also tempting you with a slice of the pie? This is like saying: > Harry Potter is the best story ever written and I have no interest in ever reading it. Property rights are made of consensus, so I'd recommend you stop consenting to the short end of the stick.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  > I'll just keep renting, I guess, since it makes no difference. There’s no way that the tax burden offsets the equity you would build by owning property vs renting. 95% of my mortgage payment goes toward paying down principal on the loan, which is essentially value I get to keep. Not to mention that my housing costs are much more fixed compared to rent. Paying rent provides zero value retention in the long run, its only real benefit is flexibility.
  - tired-turtle 3y ago
    This stance is predicated on interest rates. Taking out a mortgage is currently not the clear cut “right choice.” It might be the optimal choice, but consider, for a loan issued today at over 6%, twice as much money over the lifetime of the loan will be go towards interest as will go toward principle.
    - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
      True, but you always have opportunity to refinance once rates come back down.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
calgarymicro 3y ago
> the city’s property tax will be reduced from 2% for every $1 of assessed value (which is less than market value) to 0.6%. To make up for the revenues lost, land will be taxed at a new rate of 11.8% This sounds like it's revenue neutral, so it doesn't seem like they're squeezing more. Also, they didn't eliminate all taxes on improvements, but cutting them by two thirds is still pretty good. If the city is to be believed, most of Detroit's residents and business will actually be unsqueezed.[0] > The city estimates that the LVT plan would reduce property taxes for 97 percent of Detroit homeowners and 70 percent of small businesses [0]https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/detroit-considers-shift-property-land-value-taxation https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/detroit-considers-shi...
mrdrippy 3y ago
It only encourages new building for people who can afford to develop the land. It would likely discourage small time investors and further the concentration of corporate owned real estate.

dheera 3y ago

Yep, if I own something I'd better own it. I shouldn't have to pay rent for owning land, or pay rent for owning a house. I'll just keep renting, I guess, since it makes no difference.

Gigachad 3y ago
>I shouldn't have to pay rent for owning land That land is provided ongoing services, security, and utilities which cost money each year to maintain. Ownership is not some fundamental law of physics. It's a made up concept which is defined however the society you live in wants to define it.
- dheera 3y ago
  > That land is provided ongoing services, security, and utilities which cost money each year to maintain Yeah, and I already pay PG&E, Comcrap, and whoever else is maintaining those services, I don't need to pay it again to the IRS. The IRS wouldn't do jack shit on land I own.
  - selectodude 3y ago
    Good news, the IRS doesn’t levy property taxes.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    The IRS has nothing to do with property taxes. Property taxes mainly go to your town and some to your state. They mainly fund your local schools, streets, parks, maintenance, etc. Do you think all these things just magically exist?
    - dheera 3y ago
      Same thing, it's a bunch of inefficient brats taking my money and not giving me that amount of value in return. I could do things much more efficiently with the same amount of money. Hence, owning property isn't attractive to me at all right now unless they can stop taxing it.
      - mrep 3y ago
        Except the people who are renting you the place you live in are probably doing so for a profit which accounts for the property taxes and thus you are still effectively paying a property tax regardless of whether you buy or rent a place to live.
      - nemo44x 3y ago
        You sound like a great community member! Where I live we see tremendous value in the property taxes we pay. The kids get a quality education, the parks are well maintained, the streets are good and the walkways are clean. It’s not cheap but it’s all accounted for in a public ledger. And if you don’t like it you’re able to run for office to change it. Look - I’m with you when it comes to government inefficiency, corruption, etc. the further from home the worse it is. At least property taxes go into my community and we directly benefit. It makes a place desirable.
        dheera 3y ago
        You see where I live, cars get smashed all the time, and the police does nothing about it. They just sit on their lazy asses. Property taxes where I live are also some of the highest in the state.
        3y ago
  - brutusborn 3y ago
    If the Federal government builds a highway that increases your land value, why should you get the windfall from any capital gains? In this case the IRS collecting LVT is just recouping the investment they have made improving your land for you.
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
How has property managed to get you to defend such an extreme version of it without also tempting you with a slice of the pie? This is like saying: > Harry Potter is the best story ever written and I have no interest in ever reading it. Property rights are made of consensus, so I'd recommend you stop consenting to the short end of the stick.
LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
> I'll just keep renting, I guess, since it makes no difference. There’s no way that the tax burden offsets the equity you would build by owning property vs renting. 95% of my mortgage payment goes toward paying down principal on the loan, which is essentially value I get to keep. Not to mention that my housing costs are much more fixed compared to rent. Paying rent provides zero value retention in the long run, its only real benefit is flexibility.
- tired-turtle 3y ago
  This stance is predicated on interest rates. Taking out a mortgage is currently not the clear cut “right choice.” It might be the optimal choice, but consider, for a loan issued today at over 6%, twice as much money over the lifetime of the loan will be go towards interest as will go toward principle.
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    True, but you always have opportunity to refinance once rates come back down.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

calgarymicro 3y ago

> the city’s property tax will be reduced from 2% for every $1 of assessed value (which is less than market value) to 0.6%. To make up for the revenues lost, land will be taxed at a new rate of 11.8% This sounds like it's revenue neutral, so it doesn't seem like they're squeezing more. Also, they didn't eliminate all taxes on improvements, but cutting them by two thirds is still pretty good. If the city is to be believed, most of Detroit's residents and business will actually be unsqueezed.[0] > The city estimates that the LVT plan would reduce property taxes for 97 percent of Detroit homeowners and 70 percent of small businesses [0]https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/detroit-considers-shift-property-land-value-taxation https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxvox/detroit-considers-shi...

mrdrippy 3y ago

It only encourages new building for people who can afford to develop the land. It would likely discourage small time investors and further the concentration of corporate owned real estate.