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I understand what you mean but I don't think I agree. Scientists are human and frequently experiment on things that they have strong beliefs or faith in. Franci

I understand what you mean but I don't think I agree. Scientists are human and frequently experiment on things that they have strong beliefs or faith in. Francis Collins is famously a devout Christian, but still conducted experiments on the origins of human life. Personally, I have faith in gravity (an absolute belief that it will work despite never having studied it myself), but I would still be very interested in doing an experiment to test it, probably partly because like everyone else I enjoy confirming my own beliefs. On the other hand, I have no faith in prayer and have never considered running an experiment, and would not really be interested in doing so. We can't know for sure, but my own intuition tells me that someone who conceived of and carried out that prayer experiment probably believed it was going to work.

xyzelement 3y ago
I think you're calling out a subtle difference between "faith" and perhaps "belief" or "knowledge." Gravity is something you believe deeply because of the science and experience you have with it. Faith would be something like "gravity and other laws of physics exist because the universe is inherently meaningful" while another faith would be "... they exist despite the universe being being random and inherently meaningless" The inherent meaning of the universe is not something we can test out, but it's something we have a faith-like belief (one way or another.)
- angoragoats 3y ago
  > The inherent meaning of the universe is not something we can test out, but it's something we have a faith-like belief (one way or another.) I do not hold any beliefs (faith-like, or otherwise) about the meaning of the universe. Ask me anything.
  - fsflover 3y ago
    What is your meaning of life? Do you see any reason to be a good person instead of being an egoistic one, where the latter would benefit you?
    - angoragoats 3y ago
      > What is your meaning of life? I’m not sure I understand the question. If you’re asking about the purpose of my life, at a biological level it’s to procreate, and on top of that I additionally make it a goal for myself to 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived, and 2) try my hardest to raise children that are decent people and set similar goals for themselves. > Do you see any reason to be a good person instead of being an egoistic one, where the latter would benefit you? Of course, I try to take actions that contribute to the well being of others or humanity as a whole whenever I can. I think we can all have well being as a goal without resorting to any unsubstantiated religious dogma. I’m curious to know what you think any of this has to do with “the meaning of the universe” (whatever that means).
      - fsflover 3y ago
        > 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived Why? What is the reason for that? You will not care about it when you're dead and right now you might spend a lot of resources for that, decreasing your quality of life, which is everything that you have. > I try to take actions that contribute to the well being of others or humanity as a whole whenever I can. Same as above. It's probably very hard, without any benefits to you on Earth. > I think we can all have well being as a goal without resorting to any unsubstantiated religious dogma. We probably can indeed, but I do not understand the logic of pursuing long-term benefits for everyone while sacrificing immediate benefits for yourself. Is this just an instinctive decision? > I’m curious to know what you think any of this has to do with “the meaning of the universe” (whatever that means). The Universe looks extremely complicated and unlikely to me. It's laws are fine tuned to make it as complicated as possible. The more we learn about how it works, the more questions appear. Whenever we think that we understand most of it, new discoveries turn everything upside down. The Universe is almost designed in such a way to create humans, if not on Earth then somewhere else. Could this be the meaning of the Universe? Then, there might also be the meaning of humanity, too. Another angle to this. Imagine there is a possibility to create a simulation of the Universe. If someone could do it, then they likely run many simulations simultaneously, just like people do. Then, the probability for you to be born in a simulation is much larger than in reality. Offtopic: >purpose of my life, at a biological level it’s to procreate At this point, this purpose goes against the well-being of humanity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/
  - farrarstan 3y ago
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xyzelement 3y ago

I think you're calling out a subtle difference between "faith" and perhaps "belief" or "knowledge." Gravity is something you believe deeply because of the science and experience you have with it. Faith would be something like "gravity and other laws of physics exist because the universe is inherently meaningful" while another faith would be "... they exist despite the universe being being random and inherently meaningless" The inherent meaning of the universe is not something we can test out, but it's something we have a faith-like belief (one way or another.)

angoragoats 3y ago
> The inherent meaning of the universe is not something we can test out, but it's something we have a faith-like belief (one way or another.) I do not hold any beliefs (faith-like, or otherwise) about the meaning of the universe. Ask me anything.
- fsflover 3y ago
  What is your meaning of life? Do you see any reason to be a good person instead of being an egoistic one, where the latter would benefit you?
  - angoragoats 3y ago
    > What is your meaning of life? I’m not sure I understand the question. If you’re asking about the purpose of my life, at a biological level it’s to procreate, and on top of that I additionally make it a goal for myself to 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived, and 2) try my hardest to raise children that are decent people and set similar goals for themselves. > Do you see any reason to be a good person instead of being an egoistic one, where the latter would benefit you? Of course, I try to take actions that contribute to the well being of others or humanity as a whole whenever I can. I think we can all have well being as a goal without resorting to any unsubstantiated religious dogma. I’m curious to know what you think any of this has to do with “the meaning of the universe” (whatever that means).
    - fsflover 3y ago
      > 1) try my hardest to leave the world a better place than it was when I arrived Why? What is the reason for that? You will not care about it when you're dead and right now you might spend a lot of resources for that, decreasing your quality of life, which is everything that you have. > I try to take actions that contribute to the well being of others or humanity as a whole whenever I can. Same as above. It's probably very hard, without any benefits to you on Earth. > I think we can all have well being as a goal without resorting to any unsubstantiated religious dogma. We probably can indeed, but I do not understand the logic of pursuing long-term benefits for everyone while sacrificing immediate benefits for yourself. Is this just an instinctive decision? > I’m curious to know what you think any of this has to do with “the meaning of the universe” (whatever that means). The Universe looks extremely complicated and unlikely to me. It's laws are fine tuned to make it as complicated as possible. The more we learn about how it works, the more questions appear. Whenever we think that we understand most of it, new discoveries turn everything upside down. The Universe is almost designed in such a way to create humans, if not on Earth then somewhere else. Could this be the meaning of the Universe? Then, there might also be the meaning of humanity, too. Another angle to this. Imagine there is a possibility to create a simulation of the Universe. If someone could do it, then they likely run many simulations simultaneously, just like people do. Then, the probability for you to be born in a simulation is much larger than in reality. Offtopic: >purpose of my life, at a biological level it’s to procreate At this point, this purpose goes against the well-being of humanity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7159189/
- farrarstan 3y ago
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