7 ms·

Yet another reason companies are fleeing California

by robd003 3y ago

dinkblam 3y ago
Probably the only place on earth companies are fleeing even faster than Germany.
- PaulHoule 3y ago
  If they're full, it's a good thing. If we could get just 50,000 people to leave CA and go to a few swing states like PA and OH, it would be the end of the Republican party as we know it.
  - ars 3y ago
    Don't people tend to change party when they move from cities to rural, and vice versa? So we could also end the Democratic party as we know it by convincing more people to move out of cities.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      As someone who grew up rural and has spent most of his adult life in cities, IME people change when going rural → urban, but don’t going the other way. Those who “change” after going rural tend to be those who previously straddled the fence in the city.
    - sokoloff 3y ago
      Which comes first? People start to have ideas that the city living isn't working out for them because they don't like X, Y, and Z and once they move, they realize that means they are now more red than a decade ago? Or blue-no-matter-who Democrats move to a rural area and then change their beliefs? I suspect it's more the former than the latter (you move after your beliefs change more than before).
  - g42gregory 3y ago
    What do you think will happen when the Socialists will take over? Do you think they will look kindly on your various "freedoms" to be "different"? Check out Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea or even China. Don't think for a second that the San Francisco will stay the same under the totalitarian Socialist rule. The "intellectuals" and "different" people will be the first to go. Always happens, according to history, because "think different" people tend to question the authority and it's a big no-no under the Socialism. Oh, and you will get a free (somewhat crappy) healthcare.
    - AskSocialist 3y ago
      Ok, I'll nibble here -- I would describe myself as a Socialist, and I'm happy to have an open conversation about the question you've asked. (Unless your question was rhetorical and not intended to be a discussion.) Can I start by asking you what type of Socialism you are most concerned with? Socialism is a very broad term with different meanings to different people. For example, I am a Socialist who is against autocratic rule. I believe the Soviet style communists (the countries you mentioned) weren't much better than other contemporary autocrats and in many cases were far worse. There are other Socialists who believe that any hierarchy is bad and should be removed. It's a very diverse community of people from a wide variety of backgrounds and a wide variety of beliefs, only a small minority of which believe in totalitarian or single party rule. I support, for example, democratic workers councils, federation of guilds, and other such elective methods of leadership. I just happen to also believe that labor entitles you to a share of the profit of that labor, rather than investment wealth. I'd love to live in a world where every company was a workers-coop, and we reduced our profit motive and increased our work comfort motive.
      - g42gregory 3y ago
        I don't doubt that you are against the autocratic rule. The point is that you won't have a choice. There will be another gentleman (they always appear), who will decide that he should be in charge and will take power, by force. You will complain, he will put you in jail or worse. At that point, you will remember that you had to dismantle democratic checks & balances (how else will you convince people to part with their property!), but it will be too late for you and everybody else.
  - dadjoker 3y ago
    Yes, institute policies that trash the state, and then flee the results and take it to other states. What could go wrong?
  - jimbob45 3y ago
    Party politics aside, it would be unwise to use past elections to attempt to predict future elections.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    If anyone’s interested, I have a model developed that shows exactly which counties people would have to populate, which ones to ignore completely, while maintaining balance in the democrat areas for me, this is a non-partisan observation population wise, the republican party simply does not have the numbers to do the same. there are very few deeply red or blue counties, but uniquely the deeply red ones are sparsely populated. so most red counties can be swung with a tiny population change to push over 50%, or can be swung by a tiny population moving there. I made the model because I was surprised some super pac or some other well funded interest group didn't already do a relocation program like this I’ll contract it out to super pacs and campaigns, and those interested. I did it in 2022 and it was too late for the midterms but its time now for the national elections
    - ars 3y ago
      You forgot to take into account that people willing to move to rural locations are also more likely to change parties after they move. i.e. you neglected second order effects.
      - yieldcrv 3y ago
        I didn't neglect that, I didn't write it I think it is very interesting to wonder how effective this would be there are many circumstances where it becomes more apparent that a party isnt representing interests relevant to that area once someone is there, especially since some places would require residency for 7-8 months before being eligible to vote there I don't care about the outcome, I navigate a lot of countries, but I’ll sell things to partisans, they’re very emotional and deeply invested in the outcome
      - PaulHoule 3y ago
        Some people move because they think they'll find a place that better matches their politics.
    - justinzollars 3y ago
      There is actually a great Youtube channel on this very topic! Colorado used to be a very nice place. When I visited in 2008 it was idyllic. Then it flipped blue and with it came all the blue problems. Homelessness, Drug addiction, depression, high cost of living, and a general sense of malaise. When I visited Colorado again in 2021 it was unrecognizable. So yes. You will flip the whole country. https://youtu.be/U-nKgfbCXHo?si=XCXROzd8JLwWZ0kv https://youtu.be/U-nKgfbCXHo?si=XCXROzd8JLwWZ0kv
  - jcampbell1 3y ago
    What is wrong with the Republican Party? Texas produces more renewable energy than California. The redneck attitude of do whatever you want on your land, and anti-regulation attitudes are far more important than political grandstanding.
    - user_7832 3y ago
      The first question itself has a lot of answers, but sticking to the topic of climate/renewables it would be silly to pretend that the republican party actually cares about the environment (especially if it isn't financially beneficial to them in the short term).
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      One thing that is wrong with them is that they don't believe they lost in 2020. They need to be beaten decisively the way that the Democrats got beat in 1984 to be cured of that.
    - tzs 3y ago
      Texas also produces more non-renewable energy than California. Texas gets 8.5% of its energy from renewables. California gets 16.5%. (The state with the most from renewables is Washington with 50%, followed by South Dakota at 43%, and Maine at 38%). For electricity the US average is 39% from renewables. Texas is a little below average at 33%. California is at 49%. (Highest is Vermont at 99+%, South Dakota at 83%, and Washington at 82%). In terms of CO2 Mt/TWh the US average is 402. Texas is 428. California is 229. (The best are Vermont at 5, Washington at 100, Oregon at 143, and South Dakota at 145). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electricity_consumption_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electri...
asdff 3y ago
Well that's kind of the point, get the companies that pollute with impunity out of our communities. Things like oil fields and refineries take up so much acreage for the amount of people they employ, and many are still situated adjacent to homes.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  Assuming you like things like groceries that aren't grown in California.. you sort of want oil extraction and processing.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    Agriculture is one of CA's largest economic outputs.
    - vorpalhex 3y ago
      Not everything grows in California.
      - anigbrowl 3y ago
        Sure, but it's not like fossil fuels are the only way to power transport, although they're certainly the easiest way at present thanks to all the existing plant & infrastructure.
  - asdff 3y ago
    Why? Neither oil nor agriculture are large sectors as other parts of the californian economy, both contribute like 7% combined to the state GDP (1,2). Oil can be bought from elsewhere, it doesn't need to be extracted from the middle of residential neighborhoods in LA county like its the 1890s still. 1, https://ajed.assembly.ca.gov/content/california-economy-2 https://ajed.assembly.ca.gov/content/california-economy-2 2, https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/news/2021/07/20/california-pwc https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/news/2021/07/20/c...
- UberFly 3y ago
labster 3y ago
I’m okay with companies that don’t want to comply with this law not doing any business in California. Other companies will pick up their sales.

Yet another reason companies are fleeing California

dinkblam 3y ago

Probably the only place on earth companies are fleeing even faster than Germany.

PaulHoule 3y ago
If they're full, it's a good thing. If we could get just 50,000 people to leave CA and go to a few swing states like PA and OH, it would be the end of the Republican party as we know it.
- ars 3y ago
  Don't people tend to change party when they move from cities to rural, and vice versa? So we could also end the Democratic party as we know it by convincing more people to move out of cities.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    As someone who grew up rural and has spent most of his adult life in cities, IME people change when going rural → urban, but don’t going the other way. Those who “change” after going rural tend to be those who previously straddled the fence in the city.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Which comes first? People start to have ideas that the city living isn't working out for them because they don't like X, Y, and Z and once they move, they realize that means they are now more red than a decade ago? Or blue-no-matter-who Democrats move to a rural area and then change their beliefs? I suspect it's more the former than the latter (you move after your beliefs change more than before).
- g42gregory 3y ago
  What do you think will happen when the Socialists will take over? Do you think they will look kindly on your various "freedoms" to be "different"? Check out Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea or even China. Don't think for a second that the San Francisco will stay the same under the totalitarian Socialist rule. The "intellectuals" and "different" people will be the first to go. Always happens, according to history, because "think different" people tend to question the authority and it's a big no-no under the Socialism. Oh, and you will get a free (somewhat crappy) healthcare.
  - AskSocialist 3y ago
    Ok, I'll nibble here -- I would describe myself as a Socialist, and I'm happy to have an open conversation about the question you've asked. (Unless your question was rhetorical and not intended to be a discussion.) Can I start by asking you what type of Socialism you are most concerned with? Socialism is a very broad term with different meanings to different people. For example, I am a Socialist who is against autocratic rule. I believe the Soviet style communists (the countries you mentioned) weren't much better than other contemporary autocrats and in many cases were far worse. There are other Socialists who believe that any hierarchy is bad and should be removed. It's a very diverse community of people from a wide variety of backgrounds and a wide variety of beliefs, only a small minority of which believe in totalitarian or single party rule. I support, for example, democratic workers councils, federation of guilds, and other such elective methods of leadership. I just happen to also believe that labor entitles you to a share of the profit of that labor, rather than investment wealth. I'd love to live in a world where every company was a workers-coop, and we reduced our profit motive and increased our work comfort motive.
    - g42gregory 3y ago
      I don't doubt that you are against the autocratic rule. The point is that you won't have a choice. There will be another gentleman (they always appear), who will decide that he should be in charge and will take power, by force. You will complain, he will put you in jail or worse. At that point, you will remember that you had to dismantle democratic checks & balances (how else will you convince people to part with their property!), but it will be too late for you and everybody else.
- dadjoker 3y ago
  Yes, institute policies that trash the state, and then flee the results and take it to other states. What could go wrong?
- jimbob45 3y ago
  Party politics aside, it would be unwise to use past elections to attempt to predict future elections.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  If anyone’s interested, I have a model developed that shows exactly which counties people would have to populate, which ones to ignore completely, while maintaining balance in the democrat areas for me, this is a non-partisan observation population wise, the republican party simply does not have the numbers to do the same. there are very few deeply red or blue counties, but uniquely the deeply red ones are sparsely populated. so most red counties can be swung with a tiny population change to push over 50%, or can be swung by a tiny population moving there. I made the model because I was surprised some super pac or some other well funded interest group didn't already do a relocation program like this I’ll contract it out to super pacs and campaigns, and those interested. I did it in 2022 and it was too late for the midterms but its time now for the national elections
  - ars 3y ago
    You forgot to take into account that people willing to move to rural locations are also more likely to change parties after they move. i.e. you neglected second order effects.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      I didn't neglect that, I didn't write it I think it is very interesting to wonder how effective this would be there are many circumstances where it becomes more apparent that a party isnt representing interests relevant to that area once someone is there, especially since some places would require residency for 7-8 months before being eligible to vote there I don't care about the outcome, I navigate a lot of countries, but I’ll sell things to partisans, they’re very emotional and deeply invested in the outcome
    - PaulHoule 3y ago
      Some people move because they think they'll find a place that better matches their politics.
  - justinzollars 3y ago
    There is actually a great Youtube channel on this very topic! Colorado used to be a very nice place. When I visited in 2008 it was idyllic. Then it flipped blue and with it came all the blue problems. Homelessness, Drug addiction, depression, high cost of living, and a general sense of malaise. When I visited Colorado again in 2021 it was unrecognizable. So yes. You will flip the whole country. https://youtu.be/U-nKgfbCXHo?si=XCXROzd8JLwWZ0kv https://youtu.be/U-nKgfbCXHo?si=XCXROzd8JLwWZ0kv
- jcampbell1 3y ago
  What is wrong with the Republican Party? Texas produces more renewable energy than California. The redneck attitude of do whatever you want on your land, and anti-regulation attitudes are far more important than political grandstanding.
  - user_7832 3y ago
    The first question itself has a lot of answers, but sticking to the topic of climate/renewables it would be silly to pretend that the republican party actually cares about the environment (especially if it isn't financially beneficial to them in the short term).
  - PaulHoule 3y ago
    One thing that is wrong with them is that they don't believe they lost in 2020. They need to be beaten decisively the way that the Democrats got beat in 1984 to be cured of that.
  - tzs 3y ago
    Texas also produces more non-renewable energy than California. Texas gets 8.5% of its energy from renewables. California gets 16.5%. (The state with the most from renewables is Washington with 50%, followed by South Dakota at 43%, and Maine at 38%). For electricity the US average is 39% from renewables. Texas is a little below average at 33%. California is at 49%. (Highest is Vermont at 99+%, South Dakota at 83%, and Washington at 82%). In terms of CO2 Mt/TWh the US average is 402. Texas is 428. California is 229. (The best are Vermont at 5, Washington at 100, Oregon at 143, and South Dakota at 145). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electricity_production_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electri... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electricity_consumption_from_renewable_sources https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_electri...

asdff 3y ago

Well that's kind of the point, get the companies that pollute with impunity out of our communities. Things like oil fields and refineries take up so much acreage for the amount of people they employ, and many are still situated adjacent to homes.

vorpalhex 3y ago
Assuming you like things like groceries that aren't grown in California.. you sort of want oil extraction and processing.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  Agriculture is one of CA's largest economic outputs.
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    Not everything grows in California.
    - anigbrowl 3y ago
      Sure, but it's not like fossil fuels are the only way to power transport, although they're certainly the easiest way at present thanks to all the existing plant & infrastructure.
- asdff 3y ago
  Why? Neither oil nor agriculture are large sectors as other parts of the californian economy, both contribute like 7% combined to the state GDP (1,2). Oil can be bought from elsewhere, it doesn't need to be extracted from the middle of residential neighborhoods in LA county like its the 1890s still. 1, https://ajed.assembly.ca.gov/content/california-economy-2 https://ajed.assembly.ca.gov/content/california-economy-2 2, https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/news/2021/07/20/california-pwc https://www.api.org/news-policy-and-issues/news/2021/07/20/c...
UberFly 3y ago

labster 3y ago

I’m okay with companies that don’t want to comply with this law not doing any business in California. Other companies will pick up their sales.