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Could this be considered a union busting action? Especially if the union was planning to negotiate for remote work. Edit: previously said strike breaking inste

Could this be considered a union busting action? Especially if the union was planning to negotiate for remote work. Edit: previously said strike breaking instead of union busting.

stronglikedan 3y ago
Perhaps not, if the union is not yet recognized.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  A union does not need to be recognized for anti-union actions to be illegal. There are a lot of protections in place around the protection of the worker's right to unionize, and if you get anywhere close to infringement you're in for a world of hurt. If the union / workers attempting to form a union can demonstrate that the company knew about the union, and show that the action adversely affected the ability of the workers to unionize, then they definitely have a pretty strong foundation for a lawsuit.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    > if you get anywhere close to infringement you're in for a world of hurt. I wouldn't hold my breath [1] about that. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+nlrb+violation https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+nlrb+violation
    - r00fus 3y ago
      Don't be too sure about that - things have changed just recently: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-decision-delays-busting#:~:text=The%20new%20framework%20means%20companies,union%20rebirth%20in%20the%20US%3F https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-d...
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > Perhaps not, if the union is not yet recognized. That's incorrect. Most of the rights afforded by the NLRA actually apply regardless of whether or not a union exists; a union is simply a formal structure for exercising those rights. In this case, firing employees could be considered retaliatory action. Retaliatory action is illegal regardless of whether or not the union has been recognized (in fact, it is illegal to retaliate against employees for supporting a union even if there is not sufficient support for the union to call an election).
  - throwaway-blaze 3y ago
    I love this legalizing and philosophizing. Bottom line is half the employees lost their jobs, and even if there is some sort of anti-union or NLRB-initiated action here, it will be years before there's a fine or lawsuit. By then the business will be unrecognizable.
    - nextaccountic 3y ago
      It doesn't matter. The employees should be made whole eventually
    - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
      Which is why vicious, "take the company out back and Ol' Yeller it" level approaches should be the norm for the NLRB. Make examples of a few high-profile companies, and eventually negotiating with a union will appear more appealing than risking the consequences of union busting.
chimeracoder 3y ago
> Could this be considered a strike breaking action? Especially if the union was planning to negotiate for remote work. Yes, it could be considered retaliation via constructive dismissal without cause. In theory the NLRB could force remediations including but not limited to reinstatement of position (ie, hiring them back). If the NLRB decides that the terminations were intended to break support for recognizing the union, the NLRB has the authority to force automatic recognition without an election. That's assuming the union pursues that case, of course, and the whole process takes months.
hipadev23 3y ago
SongTradr needs demonstrate that Bandcamp wasn't financially viable and thus layoffs were coming regardless of unionization attempts. They acquired BandCamp two weeks ago and layoffs post-acquisition are extremely common. NLRB can't do shit.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
    This is an egregious comment. Why are you assuming the GP was satisfied in making this point. You are assuming the worst in this person just because you disagree.
    - coldtea 3y ago
      No, I assume it because of the way they phrased their answer
      - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
        Right, that’s what I’m saying is so out of line. Their phrasing was simply concise, you shouldn’t be so comfortable reading into it any more than that.
- mhitza 3y ago
  > SongTradr needs demonstrate that Bandcamp wasn't financially viable That's provably false. > He notes that, according to its co-founder, Ethan Diamond, Bandcamp has been profitable since 2012. > In addition, Bandcamp charges its customers (indie artists) just 10-15% commission rates as a retailer – and on Bandcamp Fridays, it charges nothing at all. https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/podcast/is-this-the-real-reason-epic-games-acquired-bandcamp/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/podcast/is-this-the-r... "Is this the real reason Epic Games acquired Bandcamp?" https://towardsdatascience.com/why-is-bandcamp-profitable-and-spotify-isnt-3444ad63e7fb https://towardsdatascience.com/why-is-bandcamp-profitable-an... "Why is Bandcamp profitable and Spotify not?" This is pre Epic acquisition, and they seemed mostly hands of in their approach. https://old.reddit.com/r/BandCamp/comments/11g0c07/its_the_one_year_anniversary_of_bandcamps/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BandCamp/comments/11g0c07/its_the_o... "It’s the one year anniversary of Bandcamp’s acquisition by Epic."
ShrigmaMale 3y ago
Theoretically could be considered union-busting. But since the company was just acquired (likely sold due to poor performance and almost certainly being reorganized) there is very good plausible deniability.
lawlessone 3y ago
Looks like it, Starbucks has a tendency to suddenly close stores in areas where unions are attempted. Doesn't seem to matter to them if the store was doing well or not.
- FireBeyond 3y ago
  Around here (near Seattle) they are having to explain why the foam floor mats behind the counter used for anti-fatigue were removed as trip hazards, but only in stores attempting to unionize...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    I destroyed my back working without mats in the resturant industry. Every winter I get back pain and have to use a cane for a few weeks. Use mats if you are going to stand somewhere 8+ hours a day kids.
    - sleepybrett 3y ago
      I have those mats in my kitchen as a normal person who only spends at most a couple of hours in there a day.
    - codethief 3y ago
      What kind of mats are those?
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        They look like this: https://www.amazon.com/ROVSUN-Anti-Fatigue-Drainage-Non-Slip-Industrial/dp/B072KN9CL3 https://www.amazon.com/ROVSUN-Anti-Fatigue-Drainage-Non-Slip...
        codethief 3y ago
        Thanks! So why do you think does it help with your back pain?
fsckboy 3y ago
>Could this be considered a strike breaking action? "Strike breaking" is a different epithet, you're looking for "union busting". Nobody at Bandcamp is on strike.
- NewJazz 3y ago
  Thanks. Not a lot of sleep this weekend.

Could this be considered a union busting action? Especially if the union was planning to negotiate for remote work. Edit: previously said strike breaking instead of union busting.

stronglikedan 3y ago

Perhaps not, if the union is not yet recognized.

OkayPhysicist 3y ago
A union does not need to be recognized for anti-union actions to be illegal. There are a lot of protections in place around the protection of the worker's right to unionize, and if you get anywhere close to infringement you're in for a world of hurt. If the union / workers attempting to form a union can demonstrate that the company knew about the union, and show that the action adversely affected the ability of the workers to unionize, then they definitely have a pretty strong foundation for a lawsuit.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  > if you get anywhere close to infringement you're in for a world of hurt. I wouldn't hold my breath [1] about that. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+nlrb+violation https://www.google.com/search?q=amazon+nlrb+violation
  - r00fus 3y ago
    Don't be too sure about that - things have changed just recently: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-decision-delays-busting#:~:text=The%20new%20framework%20means%20companies,union%20rebirth%20in%20the%20US%3F https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/02/union-nlrb-d...
chimeracoder 3y ago
> Perhaps not, if the union is not yet recognized. That's incorrect. Most of the rights afforded by the NLRA actually apply regardless of whether or not a union exists; a union is simply a formal structure for exercising those rights. In this case, firing employees could be considered retaliatory action. Retaliatory action is illegal regardless of whether or not the union has been recognized (in fact, it is illegal to retaliate against employees for supporting a union even if there is not sufficient support for the union to call an election).
- throwaway-blaze 3y ago
  I love this legalizing and philosophizing. Bottom line is half the employees lost their jobs, and even if there is some sort of anti-union or NLRB-initiated action here, it will be years before there's a fine or lawsuit. By then the business will be unrecognizable.
  - nextaccountic 3y ago
    It doesn't matter. The employees should be made whole eventually
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    Which is why vicious, "take the company out back and Ol' Yeller it" level approaches should be the norm for the NLRB. Make examples of a few high-profile companies, and eventually negotiating with a union will appear more appealing than risking the consequences of union busting.

chimeracoder 3y ago

> Could this be considered a strike breaking action? Especially if the union was planning to negotiate for remote work. Yes, it could be considered retaliation via constructive dismissal without cause. In theory the NLRB could force remediations including but not limited to reinstatement of position (ie, hiring them back). If the NLRB decides that the terminations were intended to break support for recognizing the union, the NLRB has the authority to force automatic recognition without an election. That's assuming the union pursues that case, of course, and the whole process takes months.

hipadev23 3y ago

SongTradr needs demonstrate that Bandcamp wasn't financially viable and thus layoffs were coming regardless of unionization attempts. They acquired BandCamp two weeks ago and layoffs post-acquisition are extremely common. NLRB can't do shit.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- DiggyJohnson 3y ago
  This is an egregious comment. Why are you assuming the GP was satisfied in making this point. You are assuming the worst in this person just because you disagree.
  - coldtea 3y ago
    No, I assume it because of the way they phrased their answer
    - DiggyJohnson 3y ago
      Right, that’s what I’m saying is so out of line. Their phrasing was simply concise, you shouldn’t be so comfortable reading into it any more than that.
mhitza 3y ago
> SongTradr needs demonstrate that Bandcamp wasn't financially viable That's provably false. > He notes that, according to its co-founder, Ethan Diamond, Bandcamp has been profitable since 2012. > In addition, Bandcamp charges its customers (indie artists) just 10-15% commission rates as a retailer – and on Bandcamp Fridays, it charges nothing at all. https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/podcast/is-this-the-real-reason-epic-games-acquired-bandcamp/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/podcast/is-this-the-r... "Is this the real reason Epic Games acquired Bandcamp?" https://towardsdatascience.com/why-is-bandcamp-profitable-and-spotify-isnt-3444ad63e7fb https://towardsdatascience.com/why-is-bandcamp-profitable-an... "Why is Bandcamp profitable and Spotify not?" This is pre Epic acquisition, and they seemed mostly hands of in their approach. https://old.reddit.com/r/BandCamp/comments/11g0c07/its_the_one_year_anniversary_of_bandcamps/ https://old.reddit.com/r/BandCamp/comments/11g0c07/its_the_o... "It’s the one year anniversary of Bandcamp’s acquisition by Epic."

ShrigmaMale 3y ago

Theoretically could be considered union-busting. But since the company was just acquired (likely sold due to poor performance and almost certainly being reorganized) there is very good plausible deniability.

lawlessone 3y ago

Looks like it, Starbucks has a tendency to suddenly close stores in areas where unions are attempted. Doesn't seem to matter to them if the store was doing well or not.

FireBeyond 3y ago
Around here (near Seattle) they are having to explain why the foam floor mats behind the counter used for anti-fatigue were removed as trip hazards, but only in stores attempting to unionize...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  I destroyed my back working without mats in the resturant industry. Every winter I get back pain and have to use a cane for a few weeks. Use mats if you are going to stand somewhere 8+ hours a day kids.
  - sleepybrett 3y ago
    I have those mats in my kitchen as a normal person who only spends at most a couple of hours in there a day.
  - codethief 3y ago
    What kind of mats are those?
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      They look like this: https://www.amazon.com/ROVSUN-Anti-Fatigue-Drainage-Non-Slip-Industrial/dp/B072KN9CL3 https://www.amazon.com/ROVSUN-Anti-Fatigue-Drainage-Non-Slip...
      - codethief 3y ago
        Thanks! So why do you think does it help with your back pain?

fsckboy 3y ago

>Could this be considered a strike breaking action? "Strike breaking" is a different epithet, you're looking for "union busting". Nobody at Bandcamp is on strike.

NewJazz 3y ago
Thanks. Not a lot of sleep this weekend.