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Interesting. I was always told as a kid that technology would make the world better by reducing human workload. Automation was supposed to make hard labor a thi

Interesting. I was always told as a kid that technology would make the world better by reducing human workload. Automation was supposed to make hard labor a thing of the past. Humans were supposed to be freed by technology to follow their dreams. The reality is that our oligarchs have used technology to follow human dreams, so humans can keep working. AI's autonomously impersonating humans should be illegal. No disclaimer. It should be against the law. Full stop.

dbish 3y ago
Automation helps every day. Farms are becoming more and more automated for one, truly reducing human workload. This is so pessimistic. You can look to a million places to see how tech and automation improves every day. I don't follow why you'd want AI's emulating humans to be illegal. If you approve your likeness being emulated, go for it. Obviously unapproved copying/deepfakes are bad but that's not this. I'd love to have my own digital clone.
- zelon88 3y ago
  I'm sure the social platforms would love it if everyone would just follow fake AI generated influences instead of the real human ones that need to be paid by someone. That sponsorship / influencer salary is money that Facebook would rather be making in ad revenue. This is the path that leads to that outcome. Replace the salary of every influencer with ad revenue paid directly to Facebook. We don't need AI influencers. We don't need AI's impersonating humans in creative fields. Let's focus on eliminating human suffering with automation before we go eliminating human recreation, enjoyment, or pleasure. You seriously don't see what is dystopian about a machine designed to post fake images of pizza it can't even eat on Facebook while our kids go to work for $13/hr / 60hrs per week?
  - dbish 3y ago
    "We don't need AI's impersonating humans in creative fields" <- Why? What's the harm (assuming they're not being used to copy and steal music/art/etc., but instead to creatively use and learn from it like humans do today)? Beyond that, many of these are allowing more people every day who wouldn't have been involved in these fields to create things themselves, working hand and hand with AI. AI augmenting humans is a beautiful thing and already is creating new types of art and will do so even more in the future. No I don't see anything dystopian about generating images of pizza, and I don't believe there's any increase in sufereing caused by it, maybe even a decrease since someone would've spent time working on an uninteresting task and throwing away food to create some perfect pizza photo for advertising (like what happens with most food photos today), instead they just let a model siumulate one and went on with their day.
    - zelon88 3y ago
      > No I don't see anything dystopian about generating images of pizza, and I don't believe there's any increase in sufereing caused by it, maybe even a decrease since someone would've spent time working on an uninteresting task and throwing away food to create some perfect pizza photo for advertising (like what happens with most food photos today), instead they just let a model siumulate one and went on with their day. You think the dystopian part is the picture of the pizza??? No my friend. The dystopian part is that someone with an unnecessarily unreasonable amount of money paid hundreds of people hundreds of thousands of dollars to design a machine that can replace the pizza influencer who makes $200k/year instead of making a machine to replace the pizza chef making $32k/year. The world needs pizza making robots. Not pizza influencer robots. That's a perfect job for a human to spend enjoying his life. Instead the robot is enjoying "life" and the human gets to experience another day of poverty. That's almost like making a pizza tasting robot and letting the chef keep working for no reason.
      - dbish 3y ago
        Sorry but as someone who works in ML, no one is paying hundreds of people to design a machine to replace a pizza influencer, that may be one task that is possible from a far larger purpose, but it's one of quite a few. Pizza making robots are also worked on in parralel and one does not stop the other (there are pizza making robots that work today, you can go buy them if you'd like). This is a false dichotomy.
itishappy 3y ago
> AI's autonomously impersonating humans should be illegal. No disclaimer. It should be against the law. Full stop. Fascinating! Where do you define the cuttoff? I can make (admittedly thin) arguments for a LOT of things impersonating humans... * Robot answering services * Autonomous cars * Bots that correct people's grammar on Twitter * Atlas from Boston Dynamics
- zelon88 3y ago
  I would define "AI" in this context as any synthetic machine or computing device that uses a fabricated audible or visual likeness to represent itself as a human being. I would define "Impersonating Humans" in this context to mean manipulating a physical or virtual environment that is typically utilized by humans for the sake of communication, collaboration, information, or entertainment where the impersonator is taking actions on their own behalf, or automatically on behalf of another entity.
  - itishappy 3y ago
    I thought it sounded pretty straightforward too, that's why I had to probe! (To be to clear, I'm not trying to fight you, just exploring beliefs for fun.) I think we can remove autonomous vehicles given your definition, as they do not try to be audibly or visually human. I'm still unconvinced about the rest...

dbish 3y ago

Automation helps every day. Farms are becoming more and more automated for one, truly reducing human workload. This is so pessimistic. You can look to a million places to see how tech and automation improves every day. I don't follow why you'd want AI's emulating humans to be illegal. If you approve your likeness being emulated, go for it. Obviously unapproved copying/deepfakes are bad but that's not this. I'd love to have my own digital clone.

zelon88 3y ago
I'm sure the social platforms would love it if everyone would just follow fake AI generated influences instead of the real human ones that need to be paid by someone. That sponsorship / influencer salary is money that Facebook would rather be making in ad revenue. This is the path that leads to that outcome. Replace the salary of every influencer with ad revenue paid directly to Facebook. We don't need AI influencers. We don't need AI's impersonating humans in creative fields. Let's focus on eliminating human suffering with automation before we go eliminating human recreation, enjoyment, or pleasure. You seriously don't see what is dystopian about a machine designed to post fake images of pizza it can't even eat on Facebook while our kids go to work for $13/hr / 60hrs per week?
- dbish 3y ago
  "We don't need AI's impersonating humans in creative fields" <- Why? What's the harm (assuming they're not being used to copy and steal music/art/etc., but instead to creatively use and learn from it like humans do today)? Beyond that, many of these are allowing more people every day who wouldn't have been involved in these fields to create things themselves, working hand and hand with AI. AI augmenting humans is a beautiful thing and already is creating new types of art and will do so even more in the future. No I don't see anything dystopian about generating images of pizza, and I don't believe there's any increase in sufereing caused by it, maybe even a decrease since someone would've spent time working on an uninteresting task and throwing away food to create some perfect pizza photo for advertising (like what happens with most food photos today), instead they just let a model siumulate one and went on with their day.
  - zelon88 3y ago
    > No I don't see anything dystopian about generating images of pizza, and I don't believe there's any increase in sufereing caused by it, maybe even a decrease since someone would've spent time working on an uninteresting task and throwing away food to create some perfect pizza photo for advertising (like what happens with most food photos today), instead they just let a model siumulate one and went on with their day. You think the dystopian part is the picture of the pizza??? No my friend. The dystopian part is that someone with an unnecessarily unreasonable amount of money paid hundreds of people hundreds of thousands of dollars to design a machine that can replace the pizza influencer who makes $200k/year instead of making a machine to replace the pizza chef making $32k/year. The world needs pizza making robots. Not pizza influencer robots. That's a perfect job for a human to spend enjoying his life. Instead the robot is enjoying "life" and the human gets to experience another day of poverty. That's almost like making a pizza tasting robot and letting the chef keep working for no reason.
    - dbish 3y ago
      Sorry but as someone who works in ML, no one is paying hundreds of people to design a machine to replace a pizza influencer, that may be one task that is possible from a far larger purpose, but it's one of quite a few. Pizza making robots are also worked on in parralel and one does not stop the other (there are pizza making robots that work today, you can go buy them if you'd like). This is a false dichotomy.

itishappy 3y ago

> AI's autonomously impersonating humans should be illegal. No disclaimer. It should be against the law. Full stop. Fascinating! Where do you define the cuttoff? I can make (admittedly thin) arguments for a LOT of things impersonating humans... * Robot answering services * Autonomous cars * Bots that correct people's grammar on Twitter * Atlas from Boston Dynamics

zelon88 3y ago
I would define "AI" in this context as any synthetic machine or computing device that uses a fabricated audible or visual likeness to represent itself as a human being. I would define "Impersonating Humans" in this context to mean manipulating a physical or virtual environment that is typically utilized by humans for the sake of communication, collaboration, information, or entertainment where the impersonator is taking actions on their own behalf, or automatically on behalf of another entity.
- itishappy 3y ago
  I thought it sounded pretty straightforward too, that's why I had to probe! (To be to clear, I'm not trying to fight you, just exploring beliefs for fun.) I think we can remove autonomous vehicles given your definition, as they do not try to be audibly or visually human. I'm still unconvinced about the rest...