5 ms·

I know this is said in jest, but I just want to remind people there is no such thing as being too valuable to be a member of a union. LeBron James is in a union

by slg 3y ago

I know this is said in jest, but I just want to remind people there is no such thing as being too valuable to be a member of a union. LeBron James is in a union. Tom Cruise is literally striking right now as part of the SAG-AFTRA union strike. Unless John Carmack happens to be reading this, I guarantee you are not close to being as valuable an engineer as LeBron is a basketball player or Cruise is an actor.

AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Just look at the amount of sincerely antisocial comments that boil down to effectively what I wrote above It’s disappointing but not surprising
- scruple 3y ago
  Yes, unsurprisingly I've had these exact sorts of conversations at work (gamesdev). Some of these people truly, truly believe that they are so gifted and so talented that the work opportunities will simply never dry up.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    If work opportunities dry up, how the union would help? Unions don't create work opportunities, they only can redistribute who gets the ones that are still there - e.g. by excluding nonmembers or by mandating that less senior members will be fired first, etc. Given that, why "these people" would be sure they aren't ones who'd get the short straw?
pandaman 3y ago
I am not sure what is the point you are trying to make, had LeBron James and Tom Cruise made a choice to join a union? Was the not joining an option for either of them? From what I know you cannot play in NBA nor you can play in Hollywood w/o being a union member. From what I can imagine each of them would do much better w/o being a union member if they are as good as you described them.
- slg 3y ago
  >had LeBron James and Tom Cruise made a choice to join a union? Yes >Was the not joining an option for either of them? Yes > From what I know you cannot play in NBA nor you can play in Hollywood w/o being a union member. That isn't true. It is much harder in Hollywood than in the NBA, but some people decide to not join or leave the union. Jon Voight is the most famous example that comes to mind. He continues to work despite quitting SAG-AFTRA. It is also more common for actors who live in cities where non-union productions are more common (outside of LA and NYC).
  - pandaman 3y ago
    >It is much harder in Hollywood than in the NBA Can you expand on this, what is "harder" exactly? They don't enjoy the benefits of the union or they cannot get high paying roles? Also, are you implying Jon Voight is not a SAG member, if so, I'd like to see your sources because from what I can find he is a member while being in dispute with it (also shows how great the unions are). And as far as NBA goes, not being a member is irrelevant as you are still paying dues and obey union regulations, fun fact I've found looking for this: Michael Jordan was not a member of the union and does seem to do better than LeBron James, e.g. there are those "Jordan" shoes which seem to do much stronger than "LeBrons".
    - slg 3y ago
      The unions have power in the industry and they work to maintain that power. That includes trying to establish rules making it difficult for union members to work non-union gigs and vice versa. This gives incentives for studios to make their productions union jobs which strengthens the union. An actor who refuses to join the union will have a harder time getting work because people generally don't want to deal with these headaches. However, actors can certainly have careers without being in the union. This is easier in places like Chicago or Atlanta were there is still a decent amount movie/TV production, but a lower percentage of the work is union work. Jon Voight is a "fees-paying non-member". He is not part of the union. He has to pay dues whenever he wants to work union jobs.[1] Same as your NBA example. I think you are mistaken about Michael Jordan. He opted out of union's shared licensing agreement[2] which is just one of the many benefits of the union. Have you found something that says he completely left the union? [1] - https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/voight-gets-nom-invite-34784/ https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/voight-gets-nom-i... [2] - https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/01/sports/sports-of-the-times-on-clothing-emperor-s-new-rules.html https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/01/sports/sports-of-the-time...
fullshark 3y ago
LeBron James is also underpaid, at least his NBA salary. That's why he chose his team based on whatever would be best for his "brand" so he could make real money.
- catlover76 3y ago
  > LeBron James is also underpaid, at least his NBA salary. By what logic?
  - fullshark 3y ago
    NBA has maximum contract sizes in its CBA. James (and many others) get the max contract allowed, which is why the best players choose teams for reasons other than money.
    - catlover76 3y ago
      Ah, salary cap, forgot about those.
  - callalex 3y ago
    The comment you replied to was only two sentences, one of which described “by what logic?”
  - bogtog 3y ago
    The NBA has a cap on how much each player can make (around $50M this year). Lebron could be, say, worth $100M/yr, yet they can't be paid this. I'm guessing that there are around a dozen players in the league worth more than the max salary.
    - leksak 3y ago
      $50M is not underpaid for any profession, that sounds like a sizeable salary regardless of what you do or the sacrifices you have to make.
smsm42 3y ago
Do they have a choice? I mean, can you work jn the industry and not be member of the union and not strike? Would you have trouble getting hired if you chose not to be a member?

by slg 3y ago

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

Just look at the amount of sincerely antisocial comments that boil down to effectively what I wrote above It’s disappointing but not surprising

scruple 3y ago
Yes, unsurprisingly I've had these exact sorts of conversations at work (gamesdev). Some of these people truly, truly believe that they are so gifted and so talented that the work opportunities will simply never dry up.
- smsm42 3y ago
  If work opportunities dry up, how the union would help? Unions don't create work opportunities, they only can redistribute who gets the ones that are still there - e.g. by excluding nonmembers or by mandating that less senior members will be fired first, etc. Given that, why "these people" would be sure they aren't ones who'd get the short straw?

pandaman 3y ago

I am not sure what is the point you are trying to make, had LeBron James and Tom Cruise made a choice to join a union? Was the not joining an option for either of them? From what I know you cannot play in NBA nor you can play in Hollywood w/o being a union member. From what I can imagine each of them would do much better w/o being a union member if they are as good as you described them.

slg 3y ago
>had LeBron James and Tom Cruise made a choice to join a union? Yes >Was the not joining an option for either of them? Yes > From what I know you cannot play in NBA nor you can play in Hollywood w/o being a union member. That isn't true. It is much harder in Hollywood than in the NBA, but some people decide to not join or leave the union. Jon Voight is the most famous example that comes to mind. He continues to work despite quitting SAG-AFTRA. It is also more common for actors who live in cities where non-union productions are more common (outside of LA and NYC).
- pandaman 3y ago
  >It is much harder in Hollywood than in the NBA Can you expand on this, what is "harder" exactly? They don't enjoy the benefits of the union or they cannot get high paying roles? Also, are you implying Jon Voight is not a SAG member, if so, I'd like to see your sources because from what I can find he is a member while being in dispute with it (also shows how great the unions are). And as far as NBA goes, not being a member is irrelevant as you are still paying dues and obey union regulations, fun fact I've found looking for this: Michael Jordan was not a member of the union and does seem to do better than LeBron James, e.g. there are those "Jordan" shoes which seem to do much stronger than "LeBrons".
  - slg 3y ago
    The unions have power in the industry and they work to maintain that power. That includes trying to establish rules making it difficult for union members to work non-union gigs and vice versa. This gives incentives for studios to make their productions union jobs which strengthens the union. An actor who refuses to join the union will have a harder time getting work because people generally don't want to deal with these headaches. However, actors can certainly have careers without being in the union. This is easier in places like Chicago or Atlanta were there is still a decent amount movie/TV production, but a lower percentage of the work is union work. Jon Voight is a "fees-paying non-member". He is not part of the union. He has to pay dues whenever he wants to work union jobs.[1] Same as your NBA example. I think you are mistaken about Michael Jordan. He opted out of union's shared licensing agreement[2] which is just one of the many benefits of the union. Have you found something that says he completely left the union? [1] - https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/voight-gets-nom-invite-34784/ https://www.backstage.com/magazine/article/voight-gets-nom-i... [2] - https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/01/sports/sports-of-the-times-on-clothing-emperor-s-new-rules.html https://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/01/sports/sports-of-the-time...

fullshark 3y ago

LeBron James is also underpaid, at least his NBA salary. That's why he chose his team based on whatever would be best for his "brand" so he could make real money.

catlover76 3y ago
> LeBron James is also underpaid, at least his NBA salary. By what logic?
- fullshark 3y ago
  NBA has maximum contract sizes in its CBA. James (and many others) get the max contract allowed, which is why the best players choose teams for reasons other than money.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    Ah, salary cap, forgot about those.
- callalex 3y ago
  The comment you replied to was only two sentences, one of which described “by what logic?”
- bogtog 3y ago
  The NBA has a cap on how much each player can make (around $50M this year). Lebron could be, say, worth $100M/yr, yet they can't be paid this. I'm guessing that there are around a dozen players in the league worth more than the max salary.
  - leksak 3y ago
    $50M is not underpaid for any profession, that sounds like a sizeable salary regardless of what you do or the sacrifices you have to make.

smsm42 3y ago

Do they have a choice? I mean, can you work jn the industry and not be member of the union and not strike? Would you have trouble getting hired if you chose not to be a member?