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At a certain point if the restaurant or building developer (rarer and harder but still i think government would also apply with scope) isn't filling all my want

At a certain point if the restaurant or building developer (rarer and harder but still i think government would also apply with scope) isn't filling all my wants or needs, yes you do start your own with all of those things (or someone in the community does to fill the want/need if they recognize it) A great deal of the things we use were at one time someone or some group wanting something the status quo wasn't providing.

jrm4 3y ago
And how do you begin to figure that out? By openly talking about it with your community, which includes people who may not be the builders. The pro-Wayland folks appear to believe that this -- talking about and being critical of software that a lot of people may use -- is a bad thing.
- bitwize 3y ago
  As I like to say, suck it up, use Wayland, file bug reports. Criticizing Wayland is great if you do it with the intent of improving Wayland. Encouraging people to fuck off back to X is counterproductive because X is a DEAD END. It's like Republican politics: all it does is obstruct useful progress, by design. The maintainers of Xorg have decided that Wayland is the way to go, as have the maintainers of the major toolkits, DEs, and distros. Spreading FUD about Wayland in an attempt to encourage people to stick with X generates more heat than light, and is ultimately useless because no one wants to maintain X or the X code paths; these will eventually break or go away. Wayland is the community-supported option going forward. You can't even count on kernel support for X: the Asahi Linux kernel display driver actively detects if it's being called from an X server, and fails if it is. When it comes to alternatives to both X and Wayland... good luck attracting the developer expertise and mindshare that Wayland already has. It's like coming up with an alternative to Facebook.
  - jrm4 3y ago
    Ha! I teach college students; they mostly don't use Facebook because there are already literally lots of alternatives, and they didn't come about because of gatekeeping the commentary about the tech. Perfectly wrong example you gave there.

jrm4 3y ago

And how do you begin to figure that out? By openly talking about it with your community, which includes people who may not be the builders. The pro-Wayland folks appear to believe that this -- talking about and being critical of software that a lot of people may use -- is a bad thing.

bitwize 3y ago
As I like to say, suck it up, use Wayland, file bug reports. Criticizing Wayland is great if you do it with the intent of improving Wayland. Encouraging people to fuck off back to X is counterproductive because X is a DEAD END. It's like Republican politics: all it does is obstruct useful progress, by design. The maintainers of Xorg have decided that Wayland is the way to go, as have the maintainers of the major toolkits, DEs, and distros. Spreading FUD about Wayland in an attempt to encourage people to stick with X generates more heat than light, and is ultimately useless because no one wants to maintain X or the X code paths; these will eventually break or go away. Wayland is the community-supported option going forward. You can't even count on kernel support for X: the Asahi Linux kernel display driver actively detects if it's being called from an X server, and fails if it is. When it comes to alternatives to both X and Wayland... good luck attracting the developer expertise and mindshare that Wayland already has. It's like coming up with an alternative to Facebook.
- jrm4 3y ago
  Ha! I teach college students; they mostly don't use Facebook because there are already literally lots of alternatives, and they didn't come about because of gatekeeping the commentary about the tech. Perfectly wrong example you gave there.