5 ms·

They're hijacking your internet. I'm not on social media and let me tell you the rest of the web still exists. Its pace is much slower, but it's there.

by pluc 3y ago

Borg3 3y ago
Yeah. Same here, mostly self-hosted. Running VPNs everywhere. Internet is still good transport layer. Old web I care is still there too, but I mirror everything I feel I will need in the future. Just in case.
CalRobert 3y ago
For now - but with changes like WEI (attestation) you may find that you have little choice to be part of "the rest of the web" unless you use an Approved Browser to do only Approved Things.
TrackerFF 3y ago
Imagine a couple of years from now, you're working on some stuff for a client. Client sends you a link, but you can't open the link with your non-chromium browser of choice - it's been built on tech provided by google, and google says: You can only use chrome to view this site. You try to download chrome, but since you once used some ad-block plugin, you've been banned from using all alphabet products. Google has also decided that in order to use chrome, you need to have a valid user account to login with. Clients says screw this, I'm gonna find someone else. (switch out client with friends, family, or whatever - one web for you, one web for the rest).
- robertlagrant 3y ago
  I think we can all think of potential futures. I don't see why this one is particularly likely. Google has open sourced the guts of its browser so others can make non-Google controlled browsers, and they fund one of the two only real competitors to their browser.
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    > you can't open the link with your non-chromium browser of choice - it's been built on tech provided by google, and google says: You can only use chrome to view this site. That part is particularly likely because that's literally what Web Environment Integrity does.
    - robertlagrant 3y ago
      Can you speak plainly? I don't think that is literally what it is. That might be a side-effect, but I'd need to see some evidence of that being the case.
      - josephcsible 3y ago
        WEI is a way to cryptographically prove to a remote website that you're really browsing it with an unmodified build of Chrome. Google hasn't said out loud yet that it's going to be used to block other browsers, but what else is there to use it for?
        robertlagrant 3y ago
        I don't think that's what it does. Where did you read that?
        josephcsible 3y ago
        https://vivaldi.com/blog/googles-new-dangerous-web-environment-integrity-spec/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/googles-new-dangerous-web-environme... says: > It would provide websites with an API telling them whether the browser and the platform it is running on that is currently in use is trusted by an authoritative third party (called an attester). And https://www.xda-developers.com/google-web-environment-integrity-api/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-web-environment-integr... says: > The proposal threatens the free and open internet in a number of ways, but one of the biggest revolves around the fact that should there be a central server that attests to whether a browser can be trusted or not, it means that anything non-standard will not be trusted. In other words, new browsers would not be trusted, and legacy software would no longer be able to access much of the internet after a certain length of time. Given that it verifies the integrity of the browser, it could also technically block certain extensions (such as Adblock) if Google were to go down that route.
- pluc 3y ago
  This is what is happening with my "Android for Work" profile. Since it's all Microsoft and "segregated", Outlook (for work) refuses to open links because I don't have Edge installed, even though I have Chrome and Firefox.
- newaccount74 3y ago
  This is already happening with lots of small business websites -- they are only on Facebook, so you can't eg. look at the menu without a Facebook account.
  - consp 3y ago
    Or company help desks, at this point after twitter changes its licensing lots of companies quit it, it was the only social media account I still used for chat-like help. Most now offer Facebook but under no circumstance am I going to create another account. Now I'm stuck with calling and waiting in line since they also stopped doing email (only callback service, which rarely works).
- sanderjd 3y ago
  None of this seems very likely.
- LinuxBender 3y ago
  I send them instructions how to SFTP files to me if it's important enough they will do it. I've managed to get lawyers to use SFTP albeit with a GUI [0a]. If anyone wants to test it out, put "ohblog.net" in the host field, then something like mysql [0b] in the username, leave the password blank and upload silly things into the /pub in the directory. AdminHands is a decent SFTP app for cell phones. If that isn't an option they can mail them to me. If they are important and time sensitive then FedEx have door-to-door courier options. Nowadays it is super simple to use GPG with email using Thunderbird, barely an inconvenience. [1] In my opinion everyone should set this up even if they do not plan to use it in the event something sensitive needs to be discussed and one does not trust platforms like Signal or WhatsApp which I do not. GPG is email provider agnostic. Mozilla are working on Thunderbird for phones. [2] [0a] - https://winscp.net/ https://winscp.net/ [0b] - https://ohblog.net/sftp_accounts_with_null_passwords.txt https://ohblog.net/sftp_accounts_with_null_passwords.txt [1] - https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-encrypt-email-in-thunderbird-and-why-you-should/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-encrypt-email-in-thunde... [2] - https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-...
  - bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
    If it's important enough they will do it Notably, this also requires that you are important enough. To some people, like the hypothetical client, you are not.
    - LinuxBender 3y ago
      I agree. For me personally that is a signal to cut ties with a business or organization. It's a red flag when orgs use crappy web portals that demand illogical or ill conceived compliance. I find those "turn key" solutions or platforms like Facebook to be full of dystopian and incompetent practices that are best to distance ones self from. Some may not find that an option but I can only hope that more people push back aggressively on malevolent patterns.
taoufix 3y ago
I'm not into social media either. But unless you want to live like a hermit, you don't have much choice nowadays but to visit these sites from time to time. 1. I can't use anything else other than WhatsApp for messaging with families and friends. Thank God my kids' school still uses good-old email for communications. 2. Almost all the useful video tutorials/mini-documentaries/science-shorts are on Youtube and nowhere else. 3. Family and friends always send me links to videos and posts on Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok. I don't usually click when it's just some meme or for laughs but sometimes it a post that matters to me/them enough to click on it.
- skah 3y ago
  I am almost sure there are alternatives. I mean, there are still programmers who exclusively learn from books, writings, and documentations ... right?
josho 3y ago
Then you are slow to see the change. Communities are slowly going behind signup walls.
jsbisviewtiful 3y ago
Gotta read the article. It's more than social media tracking us.

They're hijacking your internet. I'm not on social media and let me tell you the rest of the web still exists. Its pace is much slower, but it's there.

by pluc 3y ago

They're hijacking your internet. I'm not on social media and let me tell you the rest of the web still exists. Its pace is much slower, but it's there.

Borg3 3y ago

Yeah. Same here, mostly self-hosted. Running VPNs everywhere. Internet is still good transport layer. Old web I care is still there too, but I mirror everything I feel I will need in the future. Just in case.

CalRobert 3y ago

For now - but with changes like WEI (attestation) you may find that you have little choice to be part of "the rest of the web" unless you use an Approved Browser to do only Approved Things.

TrackerFF 3y ago

Imagine a couple of years from now, you're working on some stuff for a client. Client sends you a link, but you can't open the link with your non-chromium browser of choice - it's been built on tech provided by google, and google says: You can only use chrome to view this site. You try to download chrome, but since you once used some ad-block plugin, you've been banned from using all alphabet products. Google has also decided that in order to use chrome, you need to have a valid user account to login with. Clients says screw this, I'm gonna find someone else. (switch out client with friends, family, or whatever - one web for you, one web for the rest).

robertlagrant 3y ago
I think we can all think of potential futures. I don't see why this one is particularly likely. Google has open sourced the guts of its browser so others can make non-Google controlled browsers, and they fund one of the two only real competitors to their browser.
- josephcsible 3y ago
  > you can't open the link with your non-chromium browser of choice - it's been built on tech provided by google, and google says: You can only use chrome to view this site. That part is particularly likely because that's literally what Web Environment Integrity does.
  - robertlagrant 3y ago
    Can you speak plainly? I don't think that is literally what it is. That might be a side-effect, but I'd need to see some evidence of that being the case.
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      WEI is a way to cryptographically prove to a remote website that you're really browsing it with an unmodified build of Chrome. Google hasn't said out loud yet that it's going to be used to block other browsers, but what else is there to use it for?
      - robertlagrant 3y ago
        I don't think that's what it does. Where did you read that?
        josephcsible 3y ago
        https://vivaldi.com/blog/googles-new-dangerous-web-environment-integrity-spec/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/googles-new-dangerous-web-environme... says: > It would provide websites with an API telling them whether the browser and the platform it is running on that is currently in use is trusted by an authoritative third party (called an attester). And https://www.xda-developers.com/google-web-environment-integrity-api/ https://www.xda-developers.com/google-web-environment-integr... says: > The proposal threatens the free and open internet in a number of ways, but one of the biggest revolves around the fact that should there be a central server that attests to whether a browser can be trusted or not, it means that anything non-standard will not be trusted. In other words, new browsers would not be trusted, and legacy software would no longer be able to access much of the internet after a certain length of time. Given that it verifies the integrity of the browser, it could also technically block certain extensions (such as Adblock) if Google were to go down that route.
pluc 3y ago
This is what is happening with my "Android for Work" profile. Since it's all Microsoft and "segregated", Outlook (for work) refuses to open links because I don't have Edge installed, even though I have Chrome and Firefox.
newaccount74 3y ago
This is already happening with lots of small business websites -- they are only on Facebook, so you can't eg. look at the menu without a Facebook account.
- consp 3y ago
  Or company help desks, at this point after twitter changes its licensing lots of companies quit it, it was the only social media account I still used for chat-like help. Most now offer Facebook but under no circumstance am I going to create another account. Now I'm stuck with calling and waiting in line since they also stopped doing email (only callback service, which rarely works).
sanderjd 3y ago
None of this seems very likely.
LinuxBender 3y ago
I send them instructions how to SFTP files to me if it's important enough they will do it. I've managed to get lawyers to use SFTP albeit with a GUI [0a]. If anyone wants to test it out, put "ohblog.net" in the host field, then something like mysql [0b] in the username, leave the password blank and upload silly things into the /pub in the directory. AdminHands is a decent SFTP app for cell phones. If that isn't an option they can mail them to me. If they are important and time sensitive then FedEx have door-to-door courier options. Nowadays it is super simple to use GPG with email using Thunderbird, barely an inconvenience. [1] In my opinion everyone should set this up even if they do not plan to use it in the event something sensitive needs to be discussed and one does not trust platforms like Signal or WhatsApp which I do not. GPG is email provider agnostic. Mozilla are working on Thunderbird for phones. [2] [0a] - https://winscp.net/ https://winscp.net/ [0b] - https://ohblog.net/sftp_accounts_with_null_passwords.txt https://ohblog.net/sftp_accounts_with_null_passwords.txt [1] - https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-encrypt-email-in-thunderbird-and-why-you-should/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-encrypt-email-in-thunde... [2] - https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-and-k-9-mail/ https://blog.thunderbird.net/2022/06/faq-thunderbird-mobile-...
- bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
  If it's important enough they will do it Notably, this also requires that you are important enough. To some people, like the hypothetical client, you are not.
  - LinuxBender 3y ago
    I agree. For me personally that is a signal to cut ties with a business or organization. It's a red flag when orgs use crappy web portals that demand illogical or ill conceived compliance. I find those "turn key" solutions or platforms like Facebook to be full of dystopian and incompetent practices that are best to distance ones self from. Some may not find that an option but I can only hope that more people push back aggressively on malevolent patterns.

taoufix 3y ago

I'm not into social media either. But unless you want to live like a hermit, you don't have much choice nowadays but to visit these sites from time to time. 1. I can't use anything else other than WhatsApp for messaging with families and friends. Thank God my kids' school still uses good-old email for communications. 2. Almost all the useful video tutorials/mini-documentaries/science-shorts are on Youtube and nowhere else. 3. Family and friends always send me links to videos and posts on Facebook, Twitter and Tiktok. I don't usually click when it's just some meme or for laughs but sometimes it a post that matters to me/them enough to click on it.

skah 3y ago
I am almost sure there are alternatives. I mean, there are still programmers who exclusively learn from books, writings, and documentations ... right?

josho 3y ago

Then you are slow to see the change. Communities are slowly going behind signup walls.

jsbisviewtiful 3y ago

Gotta read the article. It's more than social media tracking us.