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> a particularly biased view of the world We can safely drop "biased" from the quote, because an unbiased view is a mirror. A useless thing. > statement is on

by ordu 3y ago

> a particularly biased view of the world We can safely drop "biased" from the quote, because an unbiased view is a mirror. A useless thing. > statement is only true for the rather small subset of things that can be scientifically investigated Science is not a reality, it is one more view of a reality. It is easy to see if you look at the history of science. Scientific beliefs come to be replaced by others. Phlogiston is not real, it existed as a scientific belief, but ceased to exist when the belief was debunked. > the observer cannot be removed and any beliefs come from the observer in the first place. Yes, we cannot talk about reality without being observers of reality. We cannot talk about reality itself, we talk about beliefs/illusions/whatever. > even if you do not believe in meditation yet, it can be observed in yourself and in others. I do not believe in it, I tried it and what I believe it is impossible and people fake it. It is real but as a myth: I do not believe in this myth but it exists nevertheless, so it is real. > the observer cannot be removed Doesn't it mean that reality doesn't exist without an observer?

sanroot99 3y ago
This thought echoes Pessimistic induction, one of the flaw in scientific method
quonn 3y ago
> I do not believe in it, I tried it and what I believe it is impossible and people fake it. It is real but as a myth: I do not believe in this myth but it exists nevertheless, so it is real. I agree with your second point, but not with the first point. How is it impossible? Just sit and observe. _That_ is certainly possible. So you seem to imply that the experience was not what you expected it to be so I need to ask: What did you expect it to be? > Doesn't it mean that reality doesn't exist without an observer? No, it only means that observations cannot be made without an observer.
- ordu 3y ago
  > So you seem to imply that the experience was not what you expected it to be so I need to ask: What did you expect it to be? Something special enough so I would feel an urge to use a special word to describe it.

by ordu 3y ago

sanroot99 3y ago

This thought echoes Pessimistic induction, one of the flaw in scientific method

quonn 3y ago

> I do not believe in it, I tried it and what I believe it is impossible and people fake it. It is real but as a myth: I do not believe in this myth but it exists nevertheless, so it is real. I agree with your second point, but not with the first point. How is it impossible? Just sit and observe. _That_ is certainly possible. So you seem to imply that the experience was not what you expected it to be so I need to ask: What did you expect it to be? > Doesn't it mean that reality doesn't exist without an observer? No, it only means that observations cannot be made without an observer.

ordu 3y ago
> So you seem to imply that the experience was not what you expected it to be so I need to ask: What did you expect it to be? Something special enough so I would feel an urge to use a special word to describe it.