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> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.” - Spai
by roenxi 3y ago
> “Ideally, in our view,” they say, “it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption.”
- Spain
It is hard to even comment on in idea that extreme. The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence.
- na2083z 3y ago[flagged]
- lkramer 3y agoyeah, conservative across the world are famously hands off in interfering in their citizen's lifes...
- maccard 3y agoThe EU don't have a monopoly on dumb laws. > The rest of us are lucky the EU has failed so comprehensively at establishing a global tech presence. Lots of us think that the world would be better if tech companies didn't play so fast and loose with our data, and were better regulated.
- arminluschin 3y agoNo end-to-end encryption means they have more data though.
- hef19898 3y agoNo, it just means whatever data they have is less secure. Encryption does nothing about data collection.
- jabradoodle 3y agoThis is a silly distinction, if they have just as much data but it's encrypted and they can't use it, most people would call that less data.
- hef19898 3y agoI am as much anti sureveillance as you get. There is abdifference so between end-to-end encryption of communications (all for it) and collecting user data (all against it). Usually I hate semantics, because most of the time people use it to nitpick on deffinitiom ignoring what people understand using a word, but here the differwnce between the two things is a) technical reality and b) relevant for topic at hand.
- clarionbell 3y agoWell encrypted data is practically useless to the collector. They could just as well be a random noise. Metadata may be worth something, but not nearly as much.
- maccard 3y agoThe solution there is political, not technical.
- throwaway60722 3y agoThe political solution is way too fragile.
- sbuk 3y agoHmmm. I wonder if the GDPR could be leveraged against the EU in this case?
- izacus 3y agoYeah, in a world where DMCA exists (guilty until proven innocent... with no process to prove that for normal people), whining about EU is really out of the line.
- clarionbell 3y agoGreat, now you will see how that looks.
- hcks 3y agoI wish euros could explain to me why they speak of "their data" as if that was their souls
- derelicta 3y agoThe amount of data you generate and store about yourself is akin to everything you generate and store physically. Between the bills I pay, the notes I write down and the photos I take, I find it pretty reasonable to affirm "my data" are representative of what I am.
- mnw21cam 3y agoI have one answer for that if the asker is based in the US: I see Americans going on and on about denying warrantless searches of their house and car. It's everywhere. Assert your rights, don't consent to a search, remain silent, don't talk to the police. That position is logically inconsistent with then letting every random company you ever have any vague dealings with (like loading their web page) deeply investigate your life in excruciating detail. If you're arguing against the first of these, you should be arguing against the latter too.
- roenxi 3y agoI agree 80%, but it isn't logically inconsistent. Google can't arrest you, the odds of Google employees shooting anyone in their day-to-day work is extremely low, and Google (all capitalist enterprises, really) managers are heavily incentivised to ignore any beliefs I hold that aren't strictly impacting their ability to do business. Any data that Google has is available to law enforcement, and that is a major problem, but in the abstract someone can object to government invasion of privacy without objecting to Google's dragnet.
- __m 3y agoAfter Snowden I wouldn’t consider ourselves lucky
- fer 3y agoSpain has been traditionally and particularly idiotic about tech legislation. Some examples: - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive, SSD, printer... as a "just in case it happens to store/copy copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. - They forced link aggregators to pay newspapers/sites for linking to their content, even just using their <og> tags. [1]. So such insane statement comes as an absolute non-surprise to anyone who's followed Spanish tech legislation for a while. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociedad_General_de_Autores_y_Editores#Digital_canon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociedad_General_de_Autores_y_... [1] https://pressgazette.co.uk/platforms/google-news-spain-facebook-challenge/ https://pressgazette.co.uk/platforms/google-news-spain-faceb...
- jeroenhd 3y ago> - There was (and is) a fee on every CD-R, DVD-R, BR-R, hard drive and SSD as a "just in case it happens to store copyright-protected material at some point ever" fee [0]. Sadly, Spain isn't the only country that does this. The copyright lobby has been very successful at making people fund their failing business model.
- clarionbell 3y agoYep. Unfortunately this is pretty normal. I would be fine with it, if it meant I get immunity from persecution when distributing pirated content. Unfortunately that would go against corporate rent seeking.
- miohtama 3y agoSpain, inheriting Franco's legacy, likes their own secret internal police and abuse of power. For exampel, Madrid was using Pegasus spyware to spy Catalonian politicians and separatists https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/catalonia-bans-use-of-pegasus-spyware/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/catalonia-ban... From this background, it's more understandable they want to all possible methods to spy their own citizens.
- petre 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mrtksn 3y agoEU is a wide range of countries with very wide range of expectations on anything so all generalizations are wrong. EU’s function is to create a mechanism to find a common ground but that’s very hard so that’s why EU is has made a name for being slow and ineffective. Spain and Switzerland or Sweden and Italy would have very, very different understanding on what the state should be able to do and how much involvement they must have because the way they govern their countries and the problems they face are very different. Spain or Italy would usually be arguing on preserving some traditional way of doing things, Finland and Denmark would attack the issue very pragmatically and have great ideas that can’t possibly work anywhere else and the France and Germany would propose something that would increase their power in the area and the original concerns would be secondary.
- Moldoteck 3y agofiy, switzerland is not in eu
- mrtksn 3y agoSure, I'm giving it as an example of the extremes of the European mindset. IMHO, it would have been better to have Switzerland not only as a country that follows that EU laws as being in the single market but also contribute into regulating it.
- pjmlp 3y agoIt isn't, however due to the bilateral agreements they might agree on specific changes, depending on how they see them. Even if it goes to vote, sometimes referendum results might turn out differently than expected.
- gotbeans 3y agoNot surprising from Spain if you ask me. Spain's central gov's been found to actively spy trhough malware politically opposing parties[1], so hearing they are against e2e encryption just sounds about right. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CatalanGate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CatalanGate
- shiroiuma 3y agoWell, it shouldn't be too surprising that a literal dictatorship would act this way. It may not be a dictatorship at the moment, but it was not too many years ago, and the only reason it's not a dictatorship today is only because the dictator died of old age. Spain does not have a very good track record with democracy, so of course such a culture isn't going to value freedom and liberal (in the classical sense) democratic values.