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Actually all current card payment providers should be put out of business altogether. Two companies(master/visa) hold complete control over the entire customer

by hknmtt 3y ago

Actually all current card payment providers should be put out of business altogether. Two companies(master/visa) hold complete control over the entire customer spending in the whole world.- They also prevented banks from catching up to the 21st century, technology-wise, and we still do not have instant online payments. There is so many things bad with banking and many causes can be traced back to these card payment providers. We need alternatives, as many as there are banks in the world. Every bank needs to be a card payment provider, an online payment gateway providers and so on.

Lutger 3y ago
Not the whole world, this is mostly in the United States. In Europe its more like what you describe, banks are the card payment provider and we have (near) instant online transfers. Credit cards are relatively unimportant here.
- izacus 3y ago
  What are you going on about? Pretty much all European banks issue Visa/Mastercard credit and debit cards (sometimes under their subbrands Maestro and VPay) by default to pretty much all customers. Most in-store payment processing goes directly over those two companies still.
  - zelphirkalt 3y ago
    Plus, if you want to buy anything online outside of your own country (in Europe), you will likely have to use a credit card or something like PayPal. Or some other third party, that is connected to your credit card.
  - sofixa 3y ago
    But the underlying payments network isn't necessarily Visa/Mastercard's. In the case of France, there's Cartes Bancaires https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/ https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/, which you can pay through regardless of your card type (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) as an alternative over paying through the Visa/Mastercard/Amex networks. And of course with GDPR, there are actual restrictions on how Visa/Mastercard can monetise your transaction history, and with banking regulations, how much of a cut they can take.
  - pornel 3y ago
    Interchange fees are regulated in Europe. This prevents this weird inflation of card fees which are then returned via cashbacks.
hvaldimir 3y ago
Do something about it then?
- lnxg33k1 3y ago
  Isn't writing about it on internet, making people aware of the issue, discussing, doing something about something? Or you meant get his superman costumes and jumping on buildings catching visa/mastercard executives?
  - hvaldimir 3y ago
    Nothing wrong with writing about on the internet. I also agree with the comment, I guess. It was a philosophical question. Why is it so hard to walk the talk.
- kneoghau 3y ago
  Any alternatives to current payment processors is immediately called a scam with no real world use cases. "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"
skywal_l 3y ago
Banks are already processing payments. When you put your credit card in your bank's ATM, the ATM is managed by the bank. It connects to your bank server and all the authorisation and processing is being done by the bank. Visa and mastercard provide connection to other banks. When you put your card in another bank's ATM or buy something in a business associated with another bank. Getting ride of the Visa/Mastercard duopoly would mean that all banks must connect to all other banks, which they do not want to do, believe me. That would be an administrative hell for them. Which is why they've been putting up with those two for so long. These are the google of banks. They are convenient. The alternative would be some sort of joint venture between all the banks. The result would less fees for the banks but no benefits for the client as the bank would keep the margin and it would still be a privacy hell. Another alternative is a public utility. But a lot of people will be as uncomfortable providing their payment data to the government.
- neovialogistics 3y ago
  A pseudo-public joint venture model is viable in internet telecoms (eg ICANN), so why not in payment clearing?
- generic92034 3y ago
  > Getting ride of the Visa/Mastercard duopoly would mean that all banks must connect to all other banks, which they do not want to do, believe me. That would be an administrative hell for them. What would be so strange about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
  - kalleboo 3y ago
    Aren't most SEPA transfers not settled directly bank-to-bank but through STEP2? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBA_Clearing#STEP2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBA_Clearing#STEP2 That said, in a system replacing VISA/MasterCard (which I personally believe is a goal worth working toward), it seems like the easiest way would be to connect all the existing national clearing systems (many of these already have instant payments on their own - Fedwire in the US, STEP2 in the Eurozone, Zengin in Japan, etc etc) in a two-tier system.
shafyy 3y ago
At least in Europe, we do have instant online transfers between banks. But yes, the duopoly situation sucks. And of course, the privacy situation with credit card companies is not nearly as bad in Europe as it's in the US. I think we need more regulation and government oversight here - even in Europe, but especially in The Land of the Free.
reisse 3y ago
> Two companies(master/visa) hold complete control over the entire customer spending in the whole world.- They also prevented banks from catching up to the 21st century, technology-wise, and we still do not have instant online payments. India has UPI, China has WeChat Pay and AliPay, Russia has MIR, and forced Visa/MC out of business for domestic payments like five years ago. Adding insult to injury, all these systems do have instant online payments. Oh, and Japan has JCB, heard African and Latin American countries have their own systems too. The "world" you're talking about is a small one.

by hknmtt 3y ago

Lutger 3y ago

Not the whole world, this is mostly in the United States. In Europe its more like what you describe, banks are the card payment provider and we have (near) instant online transfers. Credit cards are relatively unimportant here.

izacus 3y ago
What are you going on about? Pretty much all European banks issue Visa/Mastercard credit and debit cards (sometimes under their subbrands Maestro and VPay) by default to pretty much all customers. Most in-store payment processing goes directly over those two companies still.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  Plus, if you want to buy anything online outside of your own country (in Europe), you will likely have to use a credit card or something like PayPal. Or some other third party, that is connected to your credit card.
- sofixa 3y ago
  But the underlying payments network isn't necessarily Visa/Mastercard's. In the case of France, there's Cartes Bancaires https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/ https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/, which you can pay through regardless of your card type (Visa, Mastercard, Amex) as an alternative over paying through the Visa/Mastercard/Amex networks. And of course with GDPR, there are actual restrictions on how Visa/Mastercard can monetise your transaction history, and with banking regulations, how much of a cut they can take.
- pornel 3y ago
  Interchange fees are regulated in Europe. This prevents this weird inflation of card fees which are then returned via cashbacks.

hvaldimir 3y ago

Do something about it then?

lnxg33k1 3y ago
Isn't writing about it on internet, making people aware of the issue, discussing, doing something about something? Or you meant get his superman costumes and jumping on buildings catching visa/mastercard executives?
- hvaldimir 3y ago
  Nothing wrong with writing about on the internet. I also agree with the comment, I guess. It was a philosophical question. Why is it so hard to walk the talk.
kneoghau 3y ago
Any alternatives to current payment processors is immediately called a scam with no real world use cases. "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

skywal_l 3y ago

Banks are already processing payments. When you put your credit card in your bank's ATM, the ATM is managed by the bank. It connects to your bank server and all the authorisation and processing is being done by the bank. Visa and mastercard provide connection to other banks. When you put your card in another bank's ATM or buy something in a business associated with another bank. Getting ride of the Visa/Mastercard duopoly would mean that all banks must connect to all other banks, which they do not want to do, believe me. That would be an administrative hell for them. Which is why they've been putting up with those two for so long. These are the google of banks. They are convenient. The alternative would be some sort of joint venture between all the banks. The result would less fees for the banks but no benefits for the client as the bank would keep the margin and it would still be a privacy hell. Another alternative is a public utility. But a lot of people will be as uncomfortable providing their payment data to the government.

neovialogistics 3y ago
A pseudo-public joint venture model is viable in internet telecoms (eg ICANN), so why not in payment clearing?
generic92034 3y ago
> Getting ride of the Visa/Mastercard duopoly would mean that all banks must connect to all other banks, which they do not want to do, believe me. That would be an administrative hell for them. What would be so strange about that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
- kalleboo 3y ago
  Aren't most SEPA transfers not settled directly bank-to-bank but through STEP2? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBA_Clearing#STEP2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBA_Clearing#STEP2 That said, in a system replacing VISA/MasterCard (which I personally believe is a goal worth working toward), it seems like the easiest way would be to connect all the existing national clearing systems (many of these already have instant payments on their own - Fedwire in the US, STEP2 in the Eurozone, Zengin in Japan, etc etc) in a two-tier system.

shafyy 3y ago

At least in Europe, we do have instant online transfers between banks. But yes, the duopoly situation sucks. And of course, the privacy situation with credit card companies is not nearly as bad in Europe as it's in the US. I think we need more regulation and government oversight here - even in Europe, but especially in The Land of the Free.

reisse 3y ago

> Two companies(master/visa) hold complete control over the entire customer spending in the whole world.- They also prevented banks from catching up to the 21st century, technology-wise, and we still do not have instant online payments. India has UPI, China has WeChat Pay and AliPay, Russia has MIR, and forced Visa/MC out of business for domestic payments like five years ago. Adding insult to injury, all these systems do have instant online payments. Oh, and Japan has JCB, heard African and Latin American countries have their own systems too. The "world" you're talking about is a small one.