3 ms·

I haven't heard or looked for anything, and I don't think any such technology exists at reasonable prices to do grid scale storage for an entire country (but ma

I haven't heard or looked for anything, and I don't think any such technology exists at reasonable prices to do grid scale storage for an entire country (but maybe it could! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32197012 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32197012 ). Browsing around on OpenInfraMap I have seen some grid scale battery storage, e.g. https://openinframap.org/#9.74/51.6119/-2.1051/L,P,S https://openinframap.org/#9.74/51.6119/-2.1051/L,P,S Minety 150MW battery down as 266MWh storage capacity so there are some around. There's independent company Octopus Energy which pays ordinary people with solar / battery / wind turbines to export energy to the grid, and if you're an interested geeky customer you can download the half-hourly pricing so you can tune your system to import cheap power and export at peak times; they do this to encourage rollout of renewables - https://octopus.energy/press/octopus-energy-doubles-payments-for-solar-export-customers/ https://octopus.energy/press/octopus-energy-doubles-payments...

Incipient 3y ago
Lithium batteries unfortunately aren't storage for a grid, they're...capacitors. They add buffer to stabilise the grid and allow transition between sources. Without any form of meaningful storage (eg pumped hydro) the UK grid will be in trouble.
- freshpots 3y ago
  https://www.tutorialspoint.com/difference-between-battery-and-capacitor https://www.tutorialspoint.com/difference-between-battery-an... You are fundamentally incorrect and either do not understand what a capacitor is or are unwilling to use the correct language in an attempt to prove a point...which unfortunately undermines it. Additionally, smart grids are already capable of transitioning between sources and solar or wind with battery storage are more cost effective than fossil fuel generation today: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/15/wind-solar-power-now-the-clear-champions-on-cost/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/15/wind-solar-power-now-th...
  - Incipient 3y ago
    Sorry I should have said LIKE a capacitor in terms of function. You are correct they are not a capacitor in terms of design and function. I'd have expected people here be able to understand that. Fundamentally, at a grid level, lithium batteries can't provide what the average person considers "storage", that is running the grid from said storage. When people hear lithium battery, they think of a phone or laptop - the battery is the sole source of power for 6-12 hours. On a grid however, lithium batteries provide very short duration stabilisation from "noisy" supply, absorb spikes in generation and boost troughs. You cannot cost effectivly power the grid from lithium batteries on a still night. Pumped hydro etc are needed to cover prolonged periods of low supply (and absorb prolonged periods of oversupply).
- jodrellblank 3y ago
  Dinorwig in Wales is pumped hydro and stores 9.1GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station Cruachan in Scotland stores 7GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Ffestiniog in Wales stores 1.4GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Power_Station Foyer at Loch Ness exists, can’t quickly see how many Wh it stores. Coire-Glas is proposed and could double the existing electricity storage apparently, which would make it huge, but not yet approved https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65015217 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-650... Still, powering a country though a cold dim calm winter is a lot of power; the UK uses around 800GWh/day of electricity, not counting gas/energy for heating. To store a week or a month or a winter of that is not a solved problem.

Incipient 3y ago

Lithium batteries unfortunately aren't storage for a grid, they're...capacitors. They add buffer to stabilise the grid and allow transition between sources. Without any form of meaningful storage (eg pumped hydro) the UK grid will be in trouble.

freshpots 3y ago
https://www.tutorialspoint.com/difference-between-battery-and-capacitor https://www.tutorialspoint.com/difference-between-battery-an... You are fundamentally incorrect and either do not understand what a capacitor is or are unwilling to use the correct language in an attempt to prove a point...which unfortunately undermines it. Additionally, smart grids are already capable of transitioning between sources and solar or wind with battery storage are more cost effective than fossil fuel generation today: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/15/wind-solar-power-now-the-clear-champions-on-cost/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/15/wind-solar-power-now-th...
- Incipient 3y ago
  Sorry I should have said LIKE a capacitor in terms of function. You are correct they are not a capacitor in terms of design and function. I'd have expected people here be able to understand that. Fundamentally, at a grid level, lithium batteries can't provide what the average person considers "storage", that is running the grid from said storage. When people hear lithium battery, they think of a phone or laptop - the battery is the sole source of power for 6-12 hours. On a grid however, lithium batteries provide very short duration stabilisation from "noisy" supply, absorb spikes in generation and boost troughs. You cannot cost effectivly power the grid from lithium batteries on a still night. Pumped hydro etc are needed to cover prolonged periods of low supply (and absorb prolonged periods of oversupply).
jodrellblank 3y ago
Dinorwig in Wales is pumped hydro and stores 9.1GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station Cruachan in Scotland stores 7GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Ffestiniog in Wales stores 1.4GWh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Power_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffestiniog_Power_Station Foyer at Loch Ness exists, can’t quickly see how many Wh it stores. Coire-Glas is proposed and could double the existing electricity storage apparently, which would make it huge, but not yet approved https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65015217 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-650... Still, powering a country though a cold dim calm winter is a lot of power; the UK uses around 800GWh/day of electricity, not counting gas/energy for heating. To store a week or a month or a winter of that is not a solved problem.