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This has already happened several times in the US. People have been put in jail until they disclose the password for their phone or encrypted data. Here is a l

This has already happened several times in the US. People have been put in jail until they disclose the password for their phone or encrypted data. Here is a list of countries compelled to reveal passwords to encrypted data by laws in force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law

matheusmoreira 3y ago
That's fucked up. I assumed the USA would be the last country on earth to do this.
- Tommstein 3y ago
  > That's fucked up. I assumed the USA would be the last country on earth to do this. Which it is. The person you responded to doesn't know what the hell they're talking about, and in fact most of the stuff in the "United States" subsection of the "Legislation by nation" section of their very own link they provided says as much, that the Fifth Amendment provides protection against such self-incrimination and that judges usually find as such.
  - hn_acker 3y ago
    Whatever protections US citizens have against the federal government usually fall through whenever national security is involved. What one federal court of appeals decides doesn't necessarily apply in other districts. The Eleventh Circuit made the Fifth Amendment ruling in 2012, but Lavabit temporarily shut down in 2013 due to FBI demands to hand over encryption keys [1]. (Lavabit was founded in Texas, which is in the Fifth Circuit [2].) The FBI can still send national security letters, which prohibit receivers from telling the public about them [3]. Meanwhile, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's ruling only applies to Pennsylvania, and the prosecutors were from Luzerne County, not the FBI [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Fifth_Circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter#Contentious_aspects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter#Conte... [4] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/11/police-cant-force-child-porn-suspect-to-reveal-his-password-court-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/11/police-cant-forc...
    - stracer 3y ago
      Was Lavabit founder in jail for not cooperating with the FBI? It seems he decided to play it safe and shut down, so there was no jail?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
stracer 3y ago
This seems clearly incompatible with Fifth Amendment. Any real cases where the person is held in prison for not revealing a password? In case of authoritarian government likely to interfere with person's life, do not use just remembered passwords at all, but password in combination with strong keys that are frequently automatically changed so no one can remember them, and have a panic button that destroys all access to encrypted data. > The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the accused from being forced to incriminate themselves in a crime. The Amendment reads: > > No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination > in United States v. Doe, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit ruled on 24 February 2012 that forcing the decryption of one's laptop violates the Fifth Amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law

matheusmoreira 3y ago

That's fucked up. I assumed the USA would be the last country on earth to do this.

Tommstein 3y ago
> That's fucked up. I assumed the USA would be the last country on earth to do this. Which it is. The person you responded to doesn't know what the hell they're talking about, and in fact most of the stuff in the "United States" subsection of the "Legislation by nation" section of their very own link they provided says as much, that the Fifth Amendment provides protection against such self-incrimination and that judges usually find as such.
- hn_acker 3y ago
  Whatever protections US citizens have against the federal government usually fall through whenever national security is involved. What one federal court of appeals decides doesn't necessarily apply in other districts. The Eleventh Circuit made the Fifth Amendment ruling in 2012, but Lavabit temporarily shut down in 2013 due to FBI demands to hand over encryption keys [1]. (Lavabit was founded in Texas, which is in the Fifth Circuit [2].) The FBI can still send national security letters, which prohibit receivers from telling the public about them [3]. Meanwhile, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court's ruling only applies to Pennsylvania, and the prosecutors were from Luzerne County, not the FBI [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavabit [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Fifth_Circuit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter#Contentious_aspects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_security_letter#Conte... [4] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/11/police-cant-force-child-porn-suspect-to-reveal-his-password-court-rules/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/11/police-cant-forc...
  - stracer 3y ago
    Was Lavabit founder in jail for not cooperating with the FBI? It seems he decided to play it safe and shut down, so there was no jail?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

stracer 3y ago

This seems clearly incompatible with Fifth Amendment. Any real cases where the person is held in prison for not revealing a password? In case of authoritarian government likely to interfere with person's life, do not use just remembered passwords at all, but password in combination with strong keys that are frequently automatically changed so no one can remember them, and have a panic button that destroys all access to encrypted data. > The Fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the accused from being forced to incriminate themselves in a crime. The Amendment reads: > > No person ... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination > in United States v. Doe, the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit ruled on 24 February 2012 that forcing the decryption of one's laptop violates the Fifth Amendment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law