5 ms·

In an era where having customer support at all is not a given, paying real human beings to offer customer support through ASL is pretty next level.

plibither8 3y ago
Agreed! However, I also wonder what their ratio of spam vs. actual ASL-requiring-customer calls is. Since it's so easy and quick to connect to a real human with comolete audio and video enabled on both ends, won't it be prone to abuse? The more such a service gets attention from regular media (instead of the niche, targeted audience it aims to serve), I fear it'll be another case of "why we can't have good things".
- SteveDR 3y ago
  Wouldn’t the spam calls be pretty minimal if they make it known that they will not provide support to non-ASL callers?
- pjerem 3y ago
  It’s already pretty easy for anyone to talk to an human at Apple tbh, be it by phone or by going to a physical store, their support is already really accessible for everyone. Here if I understand you don’t get access to support but to an interpreter who will call the support for you. It’s of no interest if you don’t know ASL
  - plibither8 3y ago
    > Here if I understand you don’t get access to support but to an interpreter who will call the support for you. It’s of no interest if you don’t know ASL I might receive some slack here, but I gave it a try (I don't know ASL). Within 5 seconds of clicking the button, I was connected to a live human, with both my video and sound, as well as the other person's, turned on (although I did have the ability to switch them off). There was no intermediate step to filter out spam calls. I did cut the call quickly though to avoid wasting their time!
  - joshstrange 3y ago
    Agreed, their customer side gets a person very quickly and so does their Apple Business Manager program. After spending many hours fighting AT&T’a automated and unhelpful customer support I got connected with a knowledgeable person instantly with ABM who was able to diagnose my issue at a level I never dreamed possible for what I’ve come to think of as “support” from most companies. They were able to confirm the issue was on AT&T’s end, give me the exact language to use when talking to AT&T, and were nice and easy to work with. At one point they needed a picture of something and I braced myself for what that process would look like, it was stupid simple, they sent me an email with a link to upload the picture. It literally couldn’t have been easier but I don’t think most support places could have accomplished that task. I have been an Apple customer for well over a decade and that ABM experience blew me away and made me happy I had gone with iPads for my business over cheaper Android tablets (one of _many_ reasons).
    - roughly 3y ago
      Something that baffles me about modern business is that Apple is far and away the most valuable company in the world, they’re phenomenally profitable, they’ve got an absolute mountain of cash, and they’ve done so by basically eschewing every page in the MBA playbook, and this has had no influence whatsoever on how the business world talks about proper business strategy. They’re obsessive about quality, they treat design and customer experience as first class parts of the process, they invest heavily in long-term R&D, they have world leading support - they’ve basically done the opposite of what every financial analyst and business consultant in the world thinks is the right move, and as a result they’re worth more than Saudi-Aramco, and yet somehow every company out there is still sprinting in the exact opposite direction of how Apple operates.
      - figassis 3y ago
        Apple had one leader who thought differently, and that paid off, and now there is already some inertia inside apple because that is part of their brand. They put out one bad keyboard, mess with the ports in their macs and the world judges them harshly, everything is something gate. Because Apple's way works does not mean other ways do not. Those other ways are way easier and cheaper, and businesses are fine chasing lower hanging fruits.
seydor 3y ago
I thought it was AI
greenberry 3y ago
100%. Wonder how soon this will become automated though? Since ASL seems like an image recognition task, and AI models are getting pretty good at that.
- maximusdrex 3y ago
  It’s not really, ASL is it’s own distinct language from English, like most sign languages. ASL is most closely related to French Sign Language, which still isn’t anything related to French and has its own linguistic features and independent development. Because of this translating ASL to English (or any other language) is no easier than translating to or from any other spoken language.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    Sure, but machines are actually pretty good at spoken and written translation these days, so I would expect that once the image recognition is solved they could handle ASL readily as well.
    - maximusdrex 3y ago
      Oh absolutely, I agree. I just wanted to make certain it was clear that it isn’t as simple as classifying images as words.
    - eaglefield 3y ago
      Since ASL doesn't have a massive corpus of scrabeable training data (at least I would think). It's probably on the harder side when it comes to creating machine translators.
      - avar 3y ago
        There must be a huge corpus of TV broadcasts, filmed live events etc. where a person speaking is being translated into sign language in real time.
robin_reala 3y ago
Not just ASL but a total of nine signing options (click the Languages button in the top right).
- philistine 3y ago
  And once again, the strange way Apple operates in Canada appears. They offer ASL, but not LSQ, the common sign language for francophones.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    There's probably fewer than 1000 deaf speakers of LSQ, many of whom are also fluent in ASL. ASL is a more common language for deaf people in Francophone communities than LSQ.
    - philistine 3y ago
      Do you have sources for that?
      - mlyle 3y ago
        Canadian census table, "mother tongue", Quebec Sign Language is listed as 990; language spoken most often at home 1475; "Other language spoken at home 6200." c.f. ASL at 4965, 8175, 37620. I perhaps overstated the case, but... Surely a good part of the 990-1500 are also functional in ASL. Those who aren't are a vanishingly small subpopulation to have a team of interpreters on staff scheduled to shifts, ready to videoconference.
        philistine 3y ago
        > Surely a good part of the 990-1500 are also functional in ASL. Do you, once again, have sources for that? I'm only trying to highlight the weird edge cases Apple constantly makes to operate in Canada, and you're carrying their water for them. They're adults, they could have explained themselves why they don't serve that language community.

plibither8 3y ago

Agreed! However, I also wonder what their ratio of spam vs. actual ASL-requiring-customer calls is. Since it's so easy and quick to connect to a real human with comolete audio and video enabled on both ends, won't it be prone to abuse? The more such a service gets attention from regular media (instead of the niche, targeted audience it aims to serve), I fear it'll be another case of "why we can't have good things".

SteveDR 3y ago
Wouldn’t the spam calls be pretty minimal if they make it known that they will not provide support to non-ASL callers?
pjerem 3y ago
It’s already pretty easy for anyone to talk to an human at Apple tbh, be it by phone or by going to a physical store, their support is already really accessible for everyone. Here if I understand you don’t get access to support but to an interpreter who will call the support for you. It’s of no interest if you don’t know ASL
- plibither8 3y ago
  > Here if I understand you don’t get access to support but to an interpreter who will call the support for you. It’s of no interest if you don’t know ASL I might receive some slack here, but I gave it a try (I don't know ASL). Within 5 seconds of clicking the button, I was connected to a live human, with both my video and sound, as well as the other person's, turned on (although I did have the ability to switch them off). There was no intermediate step to filter out spam calls. I did cut the call quickly though to avoid wasting their time!
- joshstrange 3y ago
  Agreed, their customer side gets a person very quickly and so does their Apple Business Manager program. After spending many hours fighting AT&T’a automated and unhelpful customer support I got connected with a knowledgeable person instantly with ABM who was able to diagnose my issue at a level I never dreamed possible for what I’ve come to think of as “support” from most companies. They were able to confirm the issue was on AT&T’s end, give me the exact language to use when talking to AT&T, and were nice and easy to work with. At one point they needed a picture of something and I braced myself for what that process would look like, it was stupid simple, they sent me an email with a link to upload the picture. It literally couldn’t have been easier but I don’t think most support places could have accomplished that task. I have been an Apple customer for well over a decade and that ABM experience blew me away and made me happy I had gone with iPads for my business over cheaper Android tablets (one of _many_ reasons).
  - roughly 3y ago
    Something that baffles me about modern business is that Apple is far and away the most valuable company in the world, they’re phenomenally profitable, they’ve got an absolute mountain of cash, and they’ve done so by basically eschewing every page in the MBA playbook, and this has had no influence whatsoever on how the business world talks about proper business strategy. They’re obsessive about quality, they treat design and customer experience as first class parts of the process, they invest heavily in long-term R&D, they have world leading support - they’ve basically done the opposite of what every financial analyst and business consultant in the world thinks is the right move, and as a result they’re worth more than Saudi-Aramco, and yet somehow every company out there is still sprinting in the exact opposite direction of how Apple operates.
    - figassis 3y ago
      Apple had one leader who thought differently, and that paid off, and now there is already some inertia inside apple because that is part of their brand. They put out one bad keyboard, mess with the ports in their macs and the world judges them harshly, everything is something gate. Because Apple's way works does not mean other ways do not. Those other ways are way easier and cheaper, and businesses are fine chasing lower hanging fruits.

seydor 3y ago

I thought it was AI

greenberry 3y ago

100%. Wonder how soon this will become automated though? Since ASL seems like an image recognition task, and AI models are getting pretty good at that.

maximusdrex 3y ago
It’s not really, ASL is it’s own distinct language from English, like most sign languages. ASL is most closely related to French Sign Language, which still isn’t anything related to French and has its own linguistic features and independent development. Because of this translating ASL to English (or any other language) is no easier than translating to or from any other spoken language.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  Sure, but machines are actually pretty good at spoken and written translation these days, so I would expect that once the image recognition is solved they could handle ASL readily as well.
  - maximusdrex 3y ago
    Oh absolutely, I agree. I just wanted to make certain it was clear that it isn’t as simple as classifying images as words.
  - eaglefield 3y ago
    Since ASL doesn't have a massive corpus of scrabeable training data (at least I would think). It's probably on the harder side when it comes to creating machine translators.
    - avar 3y ago
      There must be a huge corpus of TV broadcasts, filmed live events etc. where a person speaking is being translated into sign language in real time.

robin_reala 3y ago

Not just ASL but a total of nine signing options (click the Languages button in the top right).

philistine 3y ago
And once again, the strange way Apple operates in Canada appears. They offer ASL, but not LSQ, the common sign language for francophones.
- mlyle 3y ago
  There's probably fewer than 1000 deaf speakers of LSQ, many of whom are also fluent in ASL. ASL is a more common language for deaf people in Francophone communities than LSQ.
  - philistine 3y ago
    Do you have sources for that?
    - mlyle 3y ago
      Canadian census table, "mother tongue", Quebec Sign Language is listed as 990; language spoken most often at home 1475; "Other language spoken at home 6200." c.f. ASL at 4965, 8175, 37620. I perhaps overstated the case, but... Surely a good part of the 990-1500 are also functional in ASL. Those who aren't are a vanishingly small subpopulation to have a team of interpreters on staff scheduled to shifts, ready to videoconference.
      - philistine 3y ago
        > Surely a good part of the 990-1500 are also functional in ASL. Do you, once again, have sources for that? I'm only trying to highlight the weird edge cases Apple constantly makes to operate in Canada, and you're carrying their water for them. They're adults, they could have explained themselves why they don't serve that language community.