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>Some car companies, such as Ford Motor [US:F] and Toyota Motor, are tempering their expectations for EVs and shifting more resources into hybrids, which have b

by sam345 3y ago

>Some car companies, such as Ford Motor [US:F] and Toyota Motor, are tempering their expectations for EVs and shifting more resources into hybrids, which have been drawing consumers at a faster clip. >The first wave of buyers willing to pay a premium for a battery-powered car has already made the purchase, dealers and executives say, and automakers arenow dealing with a more hesitant group, just as a barrage of new EV models are expected to hit dealerships in the coming years I believe this is what the CEO of Toyota was promoting - emphasizing hybrids as most realistic route for most consumers. He was slammed for it.

latchkey 3y ago
> emphasizing hybrids as most realistic route for most consumers. He was slammed for it. Interesting to get slammed for a Hybrid... https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-chevrolet-corvette-e-ray-first-drive-review-specs-price-options-impressions https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-chevrolet-corvette...
r00fus 3y ago
If they had interesting hybrids I might be interested. The last interesting hybrid was the Chevy Volt. Make a plug-in series hybrid with 100+ mile EV range and I’ll get excited. Parallel hybrids are just fancy ICE.
- Robotbeat 3y ago
  Yeah. Toyota’s PHEV are interesting now, but they literally could’ve built a good, full-speed-electric, PHEV 20 years ago if they had wanted but they refused. The Volt was way better than Toyota’s PHEVs. Toyota can’t get out of their own way with this tech in spite of being easily 10 years ahead of everyone else at one point.
zhdc1 3y ago
> I believe this is what the CEO of Toyota was promoting - emphasizing hybrids as most realistic route for most consumers. He was slammed for it. Hybrids haven’t had much success. The market, at least in Europe, is flooded with slightly used PHEVs.
- wolverine876 3y ago
  Hasn't the Prius been enormously successful for decades?
  - zhdc1 3y ago
    PHEV = plug-in hybrids.
- flashback2199 3y ago
  Hybrids have been very successful in the US.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
What's the market for a Prius Prime? If it was cheaper than an EV it would make sense, but a Prius Prime is more expensive than a model 3, and after rebate it's more expensive than a model 3 LR. If you can plug in at home an EV is likely viable. If you can't, why would you buy a PHEV rather than a cheaper non-plugin HEV?
- wolverine876 3y ago
  > If you can plug in at home an EV is likely viable. Where is data on such things? I'm sure that's true for some and not others, but how many?
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Every time somebody has told me "I can't buy an EV because I need to go from X to Y" I punch it into abetterrouteplanner.com and show them the trip is viable in an EV.
- lambdasquirrel 3y ago
  The home ownership thing prices out a large percentage of younger buyers, who are also more likely to try something new. It's just numbers, man.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    The reason they won't buy a new EV is the same reason they won't buy a new PHEV.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      At least with many EVs you can charge at public chargers at a decent speed. If you are trying to get around town on a 3.6kW public charger your ass better start biking.
jillesvangurp 3y ago
The issue with both companies is that they just don't have the production capacity to produce at the scale they'd need to. Additionally, what little they do produce has cost challenges. Ford is a bit further ahead than Toyota of course and they are ramping up production volumes now. Particularly the mustang and f150 are very successful for them. But most of what they sell is still ice vehicles and it will be quite a few years before they are going to be able to change that. Toyota is a basket case at this point. Basically a no show in the market; by their own choosing. It's going to take them many years to fix that. They are betting heavily on the market for hybrids not collapsing in the mean time. And that might very well turn out to be a risky bet. There's a reason mr. Toyoda was sent into early retirement a few months ago: their shareholders are starting to get a bit anxious. Hybrids were their past strategy. They'll be milking them for as long as they can get away with but judging from their recent announcements, they no longer believe that to be good enough. They are talking up their battery capabilities a lot lately and they have announced a few EVs to be launched in the next few years. Of course there is still the minor issue of having to build the factories and supply lines to build those.

by sam345 3y ago

latchkey 3y ago

> emphasizing hybrids as most realistic route for most consumers. He was slammed for it. Interesting to get slammed for a Hybrid... https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-chevrolet-corvette-e-ray-first-drive-review-specs-price-options-impressions https://www.thedrive.com/car-reviews/2024-chevrolet-corvette...

r00fus 3y ago

If they had interesting hybrids I might be interested. The last interesting hybrid was the Chevy Volt. Make a plug-in series hybrid with 100+ mile EV range and I’ll get excited. Parallel hybrids are just fancy ICE.

Robotbeat 3y ago
Yeah. Toyota’s PHEV are interesting now, but they literally could’ve built a good, full-speed-electric, PHEV 20 years ago if they had wanted but they refused. The Volt was way better than Toyota’s PHEVs. Toyota can’t get out of their own way with this tech in spite of being easily 10 years ahead of everyone else at one point.

zhdc1 3y ago

> I believe this is what the CEO of Toyota was promoting - emphasizing hybrids as most realistic route for most consumers. He was slammed for it. Hybrids haven’t had much success. The market, at least in Europe, is flooded with slightly used PHEVs.

wolverine876 3y ago
Hasn't the Prius been enormously successful for decades?
- zhdc1 3y ago
  PHEV = plug-in hybrids.
flashback2199 3y ago
Hybrids have been very successful in the US.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

What's the market for a Prius Prime? If it was cheaper than an EV it would make sense, but a Prius Prime is more expensive than a model 3, and after rebate it's more expensive than a model 3 LR. If you can plug in at home an EV is likely viable. If you can't, why would you buy a PHEV rather than a cheaper non-plugin HEV?

wolverine876 3y ago
> If you can plug in at home an EV is likely viable. Where is data on such things? I'm sure that's true for some and not others, but how many?
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Every time somebody has told me "I can't buy an EV because I need to go from X to Y" I punch it into abetterrouteplanner.com and show them the trip is viable in an EV.
lambdasquirrel 3y ago
The home ownership thing prices out a large percentage of younger buyers, who are also more likely to try something new. It's just numbers, man.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  The reason they won't buy a new EV is the same reason they won't buy a new PHEV.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    At least with many EVs you can charge at public chargers at a decent speed. If you are trying to get around town on a 3.6kW public charger your ass better start biking.

jillesvangurp 3y ago

The issue with both companies is that they just don't have the production capacity to produce at the scale they'd need to. Additionally, what little they do produce has cost challenges. Ford is a bit further ahead than Toyota of course and they are ramping up production volumes now. Particularly the mustang and f150 are very successful for them. But most of what they sell is still ice vehicles and it will be quite a few years before they are going to be able to change that. Toyota is a basket case at this point. Basically a no show in the market; by their own choosing. It's going to take them many years to fix that. They are betting heavily on the market for hybrids not collapsing in the mean time. And that might very well turn out to be a risky bet. There's a reason mr. Toyoda was sent into early retirement a few months ago: their shareholders are starting to get a bit anxious. Hybrids were their past strategy. They'll be milking them for as long as they can get away with but judging from their recent announcements, they no longer believe that to be good enough. They are talking up their battery capabilities a lot lately and they have announced a few EVs to be launched in the next few years. Of course there is still the minor issue of having to build the factories and supply lines to build those.