4 ms·

State of the Map EU 2023

153 points by raybb 3y ago

jruohonen 3y ago
Can anyone brief me on the current situation and prospects of OpenStreetMap? For instance, the other day I was looking for a functionality to upload photos (with their coordinates from EXIF) from various places, but it was impossible. In general, contributing to the project seemed all too complicated for others than diehard devotees.
- mtmail 3y ago
  OSM's database doesn't store photos so you might have looked for a functionality which never existed. What was your usecase? There's https://kartaview.org/ https://kartaview.org/ , https://mapilio.com/ https://mapilio.com/ and https://www.mapillary.com/ https://www.mapillary.com/ (the latter acquired by Facebook) who collect geo-referenced photos.
- pteraspidomorph 3y ago
  As a casual who has contributed, it's not that hard. I do agree that I wish they had certain features that they currently don't. What was your ultimate objective?
- Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
  OSM is very tightly focused. It’s a factual geodatabase. Nothing else. No reviews, no photos, no StreetView, no consumer-facing navigation app, no “host your own data” a la Google My Maps, no public transport timetables. Just street, landuse and other map data. The principle is that others can then take that data and build on it - and they do!
  - berkes 3y ago
    It does have some timetables. There are opening hours for your local barber,but also for a beach, national park, and for roads, gates etc. There are timetables for ferries, elevators, etc. Most often only "the ferry is running between 06:30 and 22:15”, but sometimes actually timetables. Eg. "The bridge opens every hour during weekdays and every two hours in the weekends". So not if your bus or tram is leaving in two minutes, but many other time tables are there. The notation is horrible though. It's a hodgepodge DSL, that's almost a programming language crammed into a text field.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  As other posters have mentioned, you misunderstand OSM. Geotagged photos go on Mapillary, for example, where they can be used to improve OSM, but not on OSM itself. But contributing to OSM is definitely not inherently complicated: the StreetComplete app has been around for years and lets any ordinary phone owner add details with just a few taps, in an environment much like a computer game. It is true that powerful editors like JOSM or Vespucci have a steeper learning curve, but since changes to OSM immediately go live and e.g. deleting a highway by mistake would be bad, you want some level of friction.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  OpenStreetMap does not store photos. There are other services for that, they build upon OSM and even recognize features such as street signs in photos so they can be easily added to the map. Regarding ease of contribution... I knew exactly nothing about mapping a few months ago. I saw the recent OSM birthday news and decided I should start contributing. Someone here on HN recommended Street Complete so I just downloaded that. It was really easy to contribute data using that app, it asks you stuff and you just add the missing information or confirm that it's correct. Added lots of local information for my city and neghborhood. Eventually I noticed some roads were wrong and downloaded Vespucci to fix them. Turned out to be surprisingly easy once I learned about ways. Just pick up a few dots and move them, maybe add some new dots. Then I figured I should probably add my house to the map. Then why not add my neighbors as well? Wait, I'm using the satellite imagery as a reference to trace the buildings. Are the streets even aligned with the images to begin with? I figure I should get some GPS traces to verify. Wow, I always thought GPS and its 3 meter precision were impressive but it's actually not good enough for this purpose. Looks like I can set up a differential GPS system with a base station at a precisely known position, what a cool project. Expensive though. Oh look, new Android phones provide access to raw GPS pseudoranges which is just what I need to differentiate GPS fixes. They even have L5 GPS, sweet. I should try making an app for that when my new phone arrives. Maybe I can repurpose my old one into a GPS base station so I can compute GPS traces with centimeter precision. Meanwhile, I'll just average the results with JOSM. Man, JOSM is such a nice editor. Free software, works on Linux. I should learn all of its features.
  - MayeulC 3y ago
    I found EveryDoor a bit easier to use on mobile than Vespucci, at least for small edits. Now, you piqued my curiosity with your mention of newer Android phones. Are they RTK-capable? Do you have a few good references on that? There are collaborative RTK networks such as https://centipede.fr/ https://centipede.fr/ which could be very useful in combination with that.
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      I saw EveryDoor mentioned in the OSM wiki but never tried it out. Says it's useful for micromapping which is certainly something I would enjoy. Androids version 10 and above have support for raw GNSS measurements, they provide access to the pseudoranges and lots more. They suddenly became the most convenient platform for accessing raw GNSS data given the proprietary mess that is the GNSS receiver market. We can also turn off the battery saving GNSS chipset duty cycling and have it continuously track the satellites, improving accuracy. Right now there seems to be no Android RTK app but I want to try making one. Perhaps I can post process the GPS traces if I can't achieve real time. Resources I've found and collected on the subject: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss.html https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss.html https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/GnssMeasurement https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Gns... https://barbeau.medium.com/gnss-interrupted-the-hidden-android-setting-you-need-to-know-d812d28a3821 https://barbeau.medium.com/gnss-interrupted-the-hidden-andro... https://www.johnsonmitchelld.com/2021/03/14/least-squares-gps.html https://www.johnsonmitchelld.com/2021/03/14/least-squares-gp... https://www.euspa.europa.eu/system/files/reports/gnss_raw_measurement_web_0.pdf https://www.euspa.europa.eu/system/files/reports/gnss_raw_me...
crimsoneer 3y ago
Since getting into geospatial modelling a few years ago, my appreciation for the OSM ecosystem has skyrocketted. I honestly think it should be up there with Wikipedia as one of the great crowd-sourced triumphs of our age. (but sad I can't afford to come chill at an in-person conference, as much as I keep meaning to go meet my local OSM chapter!)
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  At least you have a local OSM chapter...
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    The OSM chapter in my own town was organized by a startup that provided map-related solutions. When that startup got acquired and its employees were all transferred to the parent corporation’s office several countries over, the chapter sadly disappeared overnight. I miss it.
    - eikenberry 3y ago
      Those employees really got the shaft in that acquisition.
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        They moved from a small Eastern European city to a Western European one that was popular with hipsters, and they got a significant pay rise. None of them were displeased about it, and the ones I am still in contact with are happy there and do not intend to move back.
  - mtmail 3y ago
    For others looking: https://openstreetmap.community/ https://openstreetmap.community/ lists local groups and chapters on a map. (Not to be confused with https://community.openstreetmap.org/ https://community.openstreetmap.org/)
- 3y ago
based2 3y ago
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/ip-address/185.199.109.153 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/ip-address/185.199.109.153 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/b766ab9129de32fb3450f966bc9aeb9cc1d955771257077474046401749cb986 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/b766ab9129de32fb3450f966b... alt https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gisco/gisco-activities/statistical-atlas https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gisco/gisco-activities/sta...
edward 3y ago
I'm going, who of you is going to be there? We could have a HN meetup at the conference. There's a slack channel for the conference (I made it): https://osmus.slack.com/messages/sotm-eu/ https://osmus.slack.com/messages/sotm-eu/ Tech conferences are great. This'll be my ninth conference so far in 2023.

153 points by raybb 3y ago

Can anyone brief me on the current situation and prospects of OpenStreetMap? For instance, the other day I was looking for a functionality to upload photos (with their coordinates from EXIF) from various places, but it was impossible. In general, contributing to the project seemed all too complicated for others than diehard devotees.

mtmail 3y ago
OSM's database doesn't store photos so you might have looked for a functionality which never existed. What was your usecase? There's https://kartaview.org/ https://kartaview.org/ , https://mapilio.com/ https://mapilio.com/ and https://www.mapillary.com/ https://www.mapillary.com/ (the latter acquired by Facebook) who collect geo-referenced photos.
pteraspidomorph 3y ago
As a casual who has contributed, it's not that hard. I do agree that I wish they had certain features that they currently don't. What was your ultimate objective?
Doctor_Fegg 3y ago
OSM is very tightly focused. It’s a factual geodatabase. Nothing else. No reviews, no photos, no StreetView, no consumer-facing navigation app, no “host your own data” a la Google My Maps, no public transport timetables. Just street, landuse and other map data. The principle is that others can then take that data and build on it - and they do!
- berkes 3y ago
  It does have some timetables. There are opening hours for your local barber,but also for a beach, national park, and for roads, gates etc. There are timetables for ferries, elevators, etc. Most often only "the ferry is running between 06:30 and 22:15”, but sometimes actually timetables. Eg. "The bridge opens every hour during weekdays and every two hours in the weekends". So not if your bus or tram is leaving in two minutes, but many other time tables are there. The notation is horrible though. It's a hodgepodge DSL, that's almost a programming language crammed into a text field.
OfSanguineFire 3y ago
As other posters have mentioned, you misunderstand OSM. Geotagged photos go on Mapillary, for example, where they can be used to improve OSM, but not on OSM itself. But contributing to OSM is definitely not inherently complicated: the StreetComplete app has been around for years and lets any ordinary phone owner add details with just a few taps, in an environment much like a computer game. It is true that powerful editors like JOSM or Vespucci have a steeper learning curve, but since changes to OSM immediately go live and e.g. deleting a highway by mistake would be bad, you want some level of friction.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
OpenStreetMap does not store photos. There are other services for that, they build upon OSM and even recognize features such as street signs in photos so they can be easily added to the map. Regarding ease of contribution... I knew exactly nothing about mapping a few months ago. I saw the recent OSM birthday news and decided I should start contributing. Someone here on HN recommended Street Complete so I just downloaded that. It was really easy to contribute data using that app, it asks you stuff and you just add the missing information or confirm that it's correct. Added lots of local information for my city and neghborhood. Eventually I noticed some roads were wrong and downloaded Vespucci to fix them. Turned out to be surprisingly easy once I learned about ways. Just pick up a few dots and move them, maybe add some new dots. Then I figured I should probably add my house to the map. Then why not add my neighbors as well? Wait, I'm using the satellite imagery as a reference to trace the buildings. Are the streets even aligned with the images to begin with? I figure I should get some GPS traces to verify. Wow, I always thought GPS and its 3 meter precision were impressive but it's actually not good enough for this purpose. Looks like I can set up a differential GPS system with a base station at a precisely known position, what a cool project. Expensive though. Oh look, new Android phones provide access to raw GPS pseudoranges which is just what I need to differentiate GPS fixes. They even have L5 GPS, sweet. I should try making an app for that when my new phone arrives. Maybe I can repurpose my old one into a GPS base station so I can compute GPS traces with centimeter precision. Meanwhile, I'll just average the results with JOSM. Man, JOSM is such a nice editor. Free software, works on Linux. I should learn all of its features.
- MayeulC 3y ago
  I found EveryDoor a bit easier to use on mobile than Vespucci, at least for small edits. Now, you piqued my curiosity with your mention of newer Android phones. Are they RTK-capable? Do you have a few good references on that? There are collaborative RTK networks such as https://centipede.fr/ https://centipede.fr/ which could be very useful in combination with that.
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    I saw EveryDoor mentioned in the OSM wiki but never tried it out. Says it's useful for micromapping which is certainly something I would enjoy. Androids version 10 and above have support for raw GNSS measurements, they provide access to the pseudoranges and lots more. They suddenly became the most convenient platform for accessing raw GNSS data given the proprietary mess that is the GNSS receiver market. We can also turn off the battery saving GNSS chipset duty cycling and have it continuously track the satellites, improving accuracy. Right now there seems to be no Android RTK app but I want to try making one. Perhaps I can post process the GPS traces if I can't achieve real time. Resources I've found and collected on the subject: https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss.html https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/sensors/gnss.html https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/GnssMeasurement https://developer.android.com/reference/android/location/Gns... https://barbeau.medium.com/gnss-interrupted-the-hidden-android-setting-you-need-to-know-d812d28a3821 https://barbeau.medium.com/gnss-interrupted-the-hidden-andro... https://www.johnsonmitchelld.com/2021/03/14/least-squares-gps.html https://www.johnsonmitchelld.com/2021/03/14/least-squares-gp... https://www.euspa.europa.eu/system/files/reports/gnss_raw_measurement_web_0.pdf https://www.euspa.europa.eu/system/files/reports/gnss_raw_me...

crimsoneer 3y ago

Since getting into geospatial modelling a few years ago, my appreciation for the OSM ecosystem has skyrocketted. I honestly think it should be up there with Wikipedia as one of the great crowd-sourced triumphs of our age. (but sad I can't afford to come chill at an in-person conference, as much as I keep meaning to go meet my local OSM chapter!)

matheusmoreira 3y ago
At least you have a local OSM chapter...
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The OSM chapter in my own town was organized by a startup that provided map-related solutions. When that startup got acquired and its employees were all transferred to the parent corporation’s office several countries over, the chapter sadly disappeared overnight. I miss it.
  - eikenberry 3y ago
    Those employees really got the shaft in that acquisition.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      They moved from a small Eastern European city to a Western European one that was popular with hipsters, and they got a significant pay rise. None of them were displeased about it, and the ones I am still in contact with are happy there and do not intend to move back.
- mtmail 3y ago
  For others looking: https://openstreetmap.community/ https://openstreetmap.community/ lists local groups and chapters on a map. (Not to be confused with https://community.openstreetmap.org/ https://community.openstreetmap.org/)
3y ago

based2 3y ago

https://www.virustotal.com/gui/ip-address/185.199.109.153 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/ip-address/185.199.109.153 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/b766ab9129de32fb3450f966bc9aeb9cc1d955771257077474046401749cb986 https://www.virustotal.com/gui/url/b766ab9129de32fb3450f966b... alt https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gisco/gisco-activities/statistical-atlas https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gisco/gisco-activities/sta...

edward 3y ago

I'm going, who of you is going to be there? We could have a HN meetup at the conference. There's a slack channel for the conference (I made it): https://osmus.slack.com/messages/sotm-eu/ https://osmus.slack.com/messages/sotm-eu/ Tech conferences are great. This'll be my ninth conference so far in 2023.