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The Average New EV Costs $14,000 Less Than It Did a Year Ago: KBB
- johnea 3y agoStill, when they consider a "low priced" EV to be $30K, it's still out of most peoplels reach...
- pcurve 3y ago30k is significantly less than avg priced internal combustion engine cars.
- margalabargala 3y agoDepends how you measure. If you enumerate the ICE cars for sale, the mean and median is much higher than 30k, yes. If you enumerate the cars purchased in a given year (and ESPECIALLY if you include used cars), the median price paid for a car may be well under 30k.
- pcurve 3y agoATP for a new car in July was $48,334. For used cars, it was $29,5k last quarter. $30k is a lot of money for sure. But it does not get you much car these days, new or used.
- margalabargala 3y agoAgain, that's skewed upwards because there's no upper bound on the price of an expensive new car, but the lower bound of a cheap new car is 0. The mean price of a car, like the mean price of a house, is much less meaningful than the median.
- sb057 3y agoA barebones Toyota Camry is $26,420.
- emodendroket 3y agoYeah the only sub-20k options are like a Nissan Sentra or Chevy Spark (do they still make those?) or something like that.
- tonyedgecombe 3y agoEven in Europe the small car options are disappearing. Ford discontinued the Fiesta recently, what had been the best selling car in the UK for years. VW have just announced they are stopping the Up. I do wonder if the manufacturers are leaving the door open for Chinese manufacturers. They may come to regret this policy.
- emodendroket 3y agoBased on the political environment I think there is pretty much zero chance Chinese manufacturers are going to be allowed to take over a significant portion of the Western auto market.
- ramraj07 3y agoWhat’s the price of a low priced regular car though?
- bobobob420 3y agoa nisaan versa is 16k msrp. a 30k toyota or honda will last you 20 years
- jzig 3y agoI will laugh my way to the bank with my ten year old Toyota that has only required oil changes!
- bobobob420 3y agothat's great. and it has good resale value. the engine will always be solid which we can't say for degrading batteries.
- belltaco 3y agoSource?
- Schiendelman 3y agoIt hasn't just required oil changes. It also requires fuel, which is increasingly much, much more expensive than electricity. Gas systems also degrade over time - MPG drops with the life of a vehicle, and it's not actually clear that behavior is much different from battery range loss...
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y agoI would like an EV. But I have a 14 year old Honda Fit. Its MPG has not dropped at all over time. It has needed nothing but wear-and-tear maintanance and new spark plug coil things. 190k miles. Gas prices vary, but I have a car already, and it seems at least questionable that it is more environmentally sound that this vehicle remains in use till its true end of life. I am not particularly motivated by money, but I can buy a lot of gas for the cost of a new vehicle, so the cost argument feels weak.
- alsodumb 3y agoI am not sure how it's out of reach for most people when the average price of new car in USA is like $48,000. Sure, you might say the average price is skewed by people buying expensive trucks. But even Camry costs like $35-36k after dealer markups - you can get Tesla model 3 for like 32k now after federal rebate.
- giantg2 3y agoWhat is the median new car cost?
- aodin 3y agoIf you're looking to remove outliers, Kelley Blue Book also tracks the average (likely mean) of new non-luxury vehicle sales, which was $44,626 in September. Non-luxury is about 80% of sales. Also, concerning the lower end of sales: "But the news isn’t all good. Only one car sold for an average price under $20,000 last month. The Mitsubishi Mirage’s average transaction price in July was $19,205. Every other car with a list price under $20,000 sold for over $20,000 on average. It’s not a large group. Automakers increasingly focus on building more expensive cars, trimming affordable models from their lineups. In December 2017, automakers produced 36 models priced at $25,000 or less. Five years later, they built just 10." [1] [1] https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-sees-smallest-increase-in-a-decade/ https://www.kbb.com/car-news/average-new-car-price-sees-smal...
- giantg2 3y agoThat's somewhat helpful, especially the last two quoted sentences. But for the other part they track luxury at the model level. If you get a jeep or truck that cost $50k-80k because you wanted heated/vented seats, a panoramic sunroof, etc then it's not included in luxury. I think part of this is also inflation (seems like some sensational journalism dor modt of the articles I found - using average instead of mean and not using inflation). Inflation from December 2017 to December 2022 would mean a $20k car in 2017 would cost $24k in 2022 adjusted for inflation. That's a huge jump.
- 3y ago
- _ea1k 3y agoThe best selling vehicle in the US is the F-150 and most of them sell for well over $30k new.
- latency-guy2 3y agoMost Americans can absolutely afford a $30k car. Certainly not all at once, but definitely on a standard 60 month loan. Do not mistake the word "most" for "all", unless you want to muddy the waters.
- kemiller 3y agoNot disagreeing but the phrase “standard 60 month loan” makes me cringe. 20 years ago more than 36 would have raised eyebrows.
- keep_reading 3y ago72 is the new standard or so I'm told, and I've seen 84 listed as an option.
- majormajor 3y agoI don't think 4+ year loans were as uncommon in 2003 as you do. 1993 or 1983 maybe... 7-year loans, now... that's new. But cars also last longer as well as costing more so... eh. I don't know what to make of it.
- andrewmcwatters 3y agoPst, they can only afford it because of the 60 month loan, where you pay an astronomical amount in interest on top of the sticker price. So no, they cannot. "Most" Americans are paying for a car based on what monthly payment they can afford, and never thinking about how much they actually owe.
- latency-guy2 3y agoAstronomical in the APR sense would be roughly +20%-40% over the lifetime of the loan in this scenario, meaning $36k - $42k. Over 5 years. So yes. Most Americans can afford this. Easily.
- jjav 3y ago> standard 60 month loan That's.... crazy! Car loans should be no more than 3 years. But really, to be responsible, only ever buy a car with cash on hand. If you need a loan, find a cheaper car until you don't need a loan. Once I bought a car with a loan but only because the manufacturer had a 0% interest offer.
- JoshTko 3y agoA base model 3 would cost me $25k in my state after IRA rebate.
- pornel 3y agoThey're brand new cars. There aren't many brand new cars cheaper than that. A new Toyota Corolla costs more than $30K. In the UK there's MG4 that is a surprisingly decent BEV for £27K (that's a price without grants/incentives), but it probably won't be available in the US, since it's a Chinese-owned brand.
- Animats 3y agoNow we're getting somewhere. Although I'm still seeing $15K of "additional dealer profit" stickers at a Jeep/Ford dealer in Silicon Valley.
- aidenn0 3y agoIt's probably expensive to have a giant lot full of cars in SV.
- aodin 3y agoThe Jeep 4xe models are actually selling below MSRP here in Colorado with "dealer discounts" (separate from any tax incentives) between 3 and 7%. Time for a roadtrip?
- bkjelden 3y agoYup. I popped into the Jeep/Ram dealer in Longmont, CO the other day and they had rows upon rows upon rows of 4xe Wranglers parked on their lot. Based on their websites, every other Jeep dealer in the area is in the same boat. Stellantis dealers are flush with inventory right now and it's a buyers market if you're interested in any of their products.
- Gracana 3y agoDeals abound for 4xes. I was originally planning on doing a custom order for a 2-door 2.0T gas-only model, but after I test drove a 4xe at a dealer near DC, I decided to buy it instead. It's great fun to drive a silent Jeep, it has power on tap with all three motors running, and with below MSRP pricing it was too hard to say no. I can do my 20 mile commute on a charge, barely, even after installing 35s.
- hedora 3y agoIf you meant to write Jeep/Ram, then think I know which dealer. They have been doing it for over a decade. (Probably since they were selling buggies or whatever.) Just go somewhere else.
- olliej 3y agoOh, are you seeing the "market value adjustment fee" add ons as well? Truly mind blowing, and really feels like it's an incredibly dumb tax evasion trick
- bobobob420 3y agoWell thanks to taxpapers electric vehicle companies are able to reduce the costs as stated in article. in general I wish tax payers got more opportunities to directly vote on where our money is going. A taxpayer should get a yearly report to indicate exactly where their money goes and which representatives voted for them.
- pcurve 3y agoPeople elect goverment and officials, both at local and federal level to make informed decisions that weight in numerous factors. If people had more direct control over and line-item veto and vote, we may not make the best decision as a whole. At least for some contentious issues, you sometimes get to directly vote on state referendum.
- dymk 3y agoAnd you get politicians getting bribed, er, lobbied, to legislate against the will of the people and/or the actually informed decision to make. It's not like a representative democracy is a clear win over a direct vote, or we'd have universal healthcare by now.
- kcb 3y agoAt the same time you should thank taxpayers for artificially low oil prices as well.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Always_Anon 3y agoHow are gas prices subsidized? I'm asking in good faith because I truly don't know.
- CamperBob2 3y agoA large chunk of the DoD budget, for one thing.
- falcolas 3y agoI wish they listed the ATP for electric vehicles instead of dancing around it like it’s a ballroom. A $14k drop is great, but what is the average price? EDIT: $53,469, just shy of a $10k premium over ICE vehicles. https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2023-08-09-Kelley-Blue-Book-Analysis-Average-New-Vehicle-Transaction-Prices-Up-Less-Than-1-Year-Over-Year,-Smallest-Increase-in-Decade https://mediaroom.kbb.com/2023-08-09-Kelley-Blue-Book-Analys...
- toomuchtodo 3y agoIs that before the $7500 federal tax credit and potential states credits?
- nico 3y agoAnd what is the cost difference in fuel? Gas is pretty expensive, and some EVs are cheap or even free to charge How do total ownership costs compare?
- adt2bt 3y agoVaries based on how cheap your electricity is and expensive your gas is but my experience has been about $1000/yr in just gas savings according to my teslas calculations, we don’t commute with it tho, so it could pay off faster for commuters, but still on the order of years to break even. A big difference is maintenance though. No oil changes, mechanical issues, etc. Just new tires when they’re worn out and occasional problems.
- huytersd 3y agoI have a solar roof and live in a hot part of the US. I haven’t paid to charge my Tesla in more than 2 years (besides long road trips though I usually end up taking our ICE vehicle for those). I go through a tank of gas in roughly 10 days. That’s around $200 a month or $2500 a year. Also no oil changes/filter replacements adds up.
- usea 3y agoI recently compared low-end cars in the US by 10-year cost of ownership, including purchase price, tax incentives, etc. A new Bolt was cheaper than even a pre-owned Civic.
- bastard_op 3y agoLook up about the fact they're making irreparable chassis now, that's why. Buy now, pay later. Rather, your insurance will, and raise your rates. But hey, everyone wins.
- SubiculumCode 3y agoComing from a more practical background, it is hard for me to want to spend 40k+ for a vehicle. I am looking at getting two vehicles in the coming years: A commuter, and a vehicle that can carry stuff (lumber, soil, etc). For the commuter I am looking at the 2024 Chevy Equinox (~starting mrsp 30k),or the 2023 Chevy Bolt (~starting mrsp 28k). With the IRA $7500 rebate, and the cheaper fuel costs, makes it attractive, with solid range too. To carry stuff, I am looking at the 2023 hybrid Ford Maverick, a double-cab small/medium sized pickup truck goind for $22.6k starting msrp...which clocks in as the cheapest hybrid vehicle on the new market. 42 city 33 highway mpg. I applaud these more modest and affordable entries into the fuel efficient market.
- JoBrad 3y agoI real put wish a single vehicle existed that combined those two things.
- spdif899 3y agoFingers crossed for a Maverick EV, it's the perfect size
- reducesuffering 3y agoEV truck, Model Y with seats down, or other efficient hatchback like Prius
- raisin_churn 3y agoI can fit 8' lumber or hundreds of pounds of soil in my Prius. That covers over 95% of my needs as a DIY homeowner. When I need 10' lumber, I rent a truck for $60 and a half hour of my time, which is more than paid for by the cheaper operating costs and insurance. When you throw in the purchase price, owning a second vehicle just to move large/heavy objects doesn't make sense unless you do it multiple times a week for a few years.
- reducesuffering 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ck2 3y agoCan't wait for 51% tipping point for EV on the road, any chance by 2030? Not just exhaust pollution eliminated but because of regenerative braking there is far less PM2.5 brakepad dust flying around at intersections. Just like banning leaded gas in cars improved health for the next generation I think 51% EV will do similar.
- keep_reading 3y agoWe're mostly trading brake dust for tire particulates so we should keep that in mind but at least the tailpipe emission reduction helps a lot of other air quality issues
- testfoobar 3y agoEVs are much heavier than ICE vehicles. The extra weight leads to much greater wear on tires per mile of travel. This leads to a substantial increase in tire dust - a significant pollutant. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/electric-vehicles-tires-wearing-out-particulates/674750/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/07/elect...
- jemmyw 3y agoIt'd be good to see some numbers because that article is pretty vague on where the fault lies. A Tesla 3 is about the same weight as my Ford Mondeo, same shape car. The article points out that (a) Americans buy larger cars than are perhaps necessary and (b) it's the acceleration that causes an issue too. Nowhere is it saying how much worse the problem is. I would say this is a low quality article.
- natch 3y agoBut not brake dust.
- dymk 3y agoThis "point" gets parroted everywhere EVs come up, but the proof is basically nonexistant or misleading at best.
- 3y ago
- mattmaroon 3y agoThe Model Y and Model 3 have to be nearly 50% of EV sales. Model y prices went down a lot, so that probably weighs heavy on averages.
- Schiendelman 3y agoMore than 50%.
- mattmaroon 3y agoNo, Tesla’s market share has gotten down to 50% and not all of their cars are 3 and Y.
- Schiendelman 3y agoYou’re talking about new sales, those actually on the road are more like 70% of those two.
- 01100011 3y agoFather in law is a dealer mechanic. The sales guys he's talked to are saying no one wants EVs while ICE vehicles are flying off the shelves. I think most folks wanting an EV(I said most) go for a Tesla because of the relative value(and I say that as a Tesla hater and fan of non-Tesla EVs). Overall, most people don't seem to want EVs. I guess that changes if gas prices rise more.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- spdif899 3y agoIt is worth pointing out the potential confirmation bias of a salesperson given the lack of good EV options available, unless this sales guy is at a dealer with multiple EVs at different price points they are likely just not talking to people who are looking to buy an EV. Tesla you do online, and many people are shopping specifically for an EV, not going to a random dealer and considering it as an option alongside ICE vehicles.
- gigel82 3y agoDon't know if this metric means much. I leased 3 Leafs in the past 7 years at ~ $200 / month average. Now the cheapest Leaf was going for $290, so I went with a Kia Niro EV at $350/mo instead (more range, more features). We need to get cheap EV lease offers back out there if we want folks to keep switching.
- belltaco 3y agoInflation and high interest rates are the reason.