4 ms·

The risk of AGI with as much as 60 points of IQ, is the emergence of private robot armies and neofeudalism.

by 29athrowaway 3y ago

bilsbie 3y ago
On the other hand self checkout still hasn’t replaced cashiers after 30 years.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- acdha 3y ago
  Not entirely but it’s cut a lot of jobs and put downward pressure on wages. It doesn’t have to be a complete replacement to negatively impact lives.
- andrewflnr 3y ago
  Uh, it's getting pretty close. At places that have it, I use it almost exclusively. They need human tech support, and security, but the basic checkout task is pretty well solved.
  - austinjp 3y ago
    "Solved" seems an odd way to view self-checkout. I find it a hideous experience. Everyone is irritable, staff and shoppers. The handful of staff have fewer tasks that involve any degree of skill, so they are reduced to simply keeping the machines working. Any issue is addressed just pressing the relevant button combo to resume regular function. If it can't be solved, maybe just close the till and move the customer to a different machine. Perhaps in busy periods the job might involve chivvying customers to available machines while calling "cash or card? Cash or card?" Customers are either bored or frustrated. Beeping your own shopping is like doing unpaid work, without even the distraction of some inane chat with a checkout jockey. And don't forget to tap your loyalty card so you can get ripped off with crumbs that are worth far less than the data you're handing over. I actively avoid the whole degrading, isolating circus. It's not "solved", quite the opposite: it's ripe for 'disruption'. Bah :)
    - ubu7737 3y ago
      [dead]
    - danaris 3y ago
      Do note that this experience is not universal. Where I see self-checkouts, I see customers choosing them voluntarily, and staff who seem perfectly cheerful and willing to help with the normal issues that arise, as well as "training" less-savvy customers to use them. Personally, I would use them every time if I could. I'd much rather minimize my interactions with strangers while shopping.
      - austinjp 3y ago
        > Where I see self-checkouts, I see customers choosing them voluntarily Yeah there are confounding factors at play here, such as there being many automated checkouts but only one with a person. > staff ... "training" less-savvy customers to use them. Training the customers is one of the things I find most depressing. From the supermarket's perspective, customers have apparently accepted that they must do unpaid work that used to be done by paid staff. Scanning items, typing in product codes when the scanner doesn't work, looking up loose goods in a catalogue and weighing them, responding to beeps and prompts, etc. And even better, watching advertising. Sure, these are all 'first world problems', but societies should be improving their citizens' lives rather than whittling away their autonomy. It might be just a papercut, but it's death by a billion papercuts. > I'd much rather minimize my interactions with strangers while shopping. Social isolation is a major and growing problem in western societies (see my other comment). People choose the path of least resistance even if it's long-term suboptimal, and minimising interactions with strangers seems like an unfortunate choice. Obviously, I'm making a bunch of assumptions that might not be fair, and you have my sympathies if your neighbourhood is full of arseholes :)
        danaris 3y ago
        To be clear, every place I have seen self-checkouts in my area, they have been optional. There's no "forcing customers to do unpaid work". Everyone who uses them is choosing to use them over the regular checkouts, which are staffed at roughly the same level they were a decade ago. They are also in one big bank, with between 1 and 3 (though usually 1) employees standing at an "operator" stand nearby, not "only 1 with an employee". I am not saying there are no stores deliberately offloading work onto customers, but a) it's clearly not all stores, and b) I, at least, actively prefer using self-checkout, and do not care that it puts a negligible amount of work onto my shoulders. And gee, thanks for moralizing at me about causing the downfall of society by (checks notes) not wanting to add to my introverted self's overall burden of stress by interacting pointlessly with strangers just in order to get the food I need to survive. Maybe (as I suggested in my first post here) don't assume that your experiences are universal?
breuleux 3y ago
I don’t know about that. I think AGI with 60 IQ may arrive before AGI that can walk, which rather limits its usefulness as an army.

The risk of AGI with as much as 60 points of IQ, is the emergence of private robot armies and neofeudalism.

bilsbie 3y ago

On the other hand self checkout still hasn’t replaced cashiers after 30 years.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
acdha 3y ago
Not entirely but it’s cut a lot of jobs and put downward pressure on wages. It doesn’t have to be a complete replacement to negatively impact lives.
andrewflnr 3y ago
Uh, it's getting pretty close. At places that have it, I use it almost exclusively. They need human tech support, and security, but the basic checkout task is pretty well solved.
- austinjp 3y ago
  "Solved" seems an odd way to view self-checkout. I find it a hideous experience. Everyone is irritable, staff and shoppers. The handful of staff have fewer tasks that involve any degree of skill, so they are reduced to simply keeping the machines working. Any issue is addressed just pressing the relevant button combo to resume regular function. If it can't be solved, maybe just close the till and move the customer to a different machine. Perhaps in busy periods the job might involve chivvying customers to available machines while calling "cash or card? Cash or card?" Customers are either bored or frustrated. Beeping your own shopping is like doing unpaid work, without even the distraction of some inane chat with a checkout jockey. And don't forget to tap your loyalty card so you can get ripped off with crumbs that are worth far less than the data you're handing over. I actively avoid the whole degrading, isolating circus. It's not "solved", quite the opposite: it's ripe for 'disruption'. Bah :)
  - ubu7737 3y ago
    [dead]
  - danaris 3y ago
    Do note that this experience is not universal. Where I see self-checkouts, I see customers choosing them voluntarily, and staff who seem perfectly cheerful and willing to help with the normal issues that arise, as well as "training" less-savvy customers to use them. Personally, I would use them every time if I could. I'd much rather minimize my interactions with strangers while shopping.
    - austinjp 3y ago
      > Where I see self-checkouts, I see customers choosing them voluntarily Yeah there are confounding factors at play here, such as there being many automated checkouts but only one with a person. > staff ... "training" less-savvy customers to use them. Training the customers is one of the things I find most depressing. From the supermarket's perspective, customers have apparently accepted that they must do unpaid work that used to be done by paid staff. Scanning items, typing in product codes when the scanner doesn't work, looking up loose goods in a catalogue and weighing them, responding to beeps and prompts, etc. And even better, watching advertising. Sure, these are all 'first world problems', but societies should be improving their citizens' lives rather than whittling away their autonomy. It might be just a papercut, but it's death by a billion papercuts. > I'd much rather minimize my interactions with strangers while shopping. Social isolation is a major and growing problem in western societies (see my other comment). People choose the path of least resistance even if it's long-term suboptimal, and minimising interactions with strangers seems like an unfortunate choice. Obviously, I'm making a bunch of assumptions that might not be fair, and you have my sympathies if your neighbourhood is full of arseholes :)
      - danaris 3y ago
        To be clear, every place I have seen self-checkouts in my area, they have been optional. There's no "forcing customers to do unpaid work". Everyone who uses them is choosing to use them over the regular checkouts, which are staffed at roughly the same level they were a decade ago. They are also in one big bank, with between 1 and 3 (though usually 1) employees standing at an "operator" stand nearby, not "only 1 with an employee". I am not saying there are no stores deliberately offloading work onto customers, but a) it's clearly not all stores, and b) I, at least, actively prefer using self-checkout, and do not care that it puts a negligible amount of work onto my shoulders. And gee, thanks for moralizing at me about causing the downfall of society by (checks notes) not wanting to add to my introverted self's overall burden of stress by interacting pointlessly with strangers just in order to get the food I need to survive. Maybe (as I suggested in my first post here) don't assume that your experiences are universal?

breuleux 3y ago

I don’t know about that. I think AGI with 60 IQ may arrive before AGI that can walk, which rather limits its usefulness as an army.