6 ms·

Linux on the Web: Getting a handle on the files in the browser

68 points by linuxontheweb 3y ago

tambourine_man 3y ago
I see that this is a labor of love, but I read through the whole page and couldn’t understand exactly what it does. Perhaps a screen recording showing how it works and how to install it?
- linuxontheweb 3y ago
  It's a purely web-based desktop environment sitting at https://linuxontheweb.github.io/ https://linuxontheweb.github.io/. That was the first link on the page. I've already tested it on Chrome, Edge and Firefox. I don't have access to Safari, so you can possibly let me know if there are any issues with it.
  - pengaru 3y ago
    > error { target: IDBOpenDBRequest, isTrusted: true, srcElement: IDBOpenDBRequest, eventPhase: 0, bubbles: true, cancelable: true, returnValue: true, defaultPrevented: false, composed: false, timeStamp: 387, … } > <empty string> util.js:640:15 > > Uncaught (in promise) ReferenceError: Y is not defined > init https://linuxontheweb.github.io/sys/fs.js:199
    - linuxontheweb 3y ago
      Hopefully fixed now!
  - johnea 3y ago
    But, don't you have to run an OS to access the web?
    - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
      From Wikipedia, > An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware and software resources, and provides common services for computer programs. The web browser certainly provides a broad base of hardware and software resources that could be managed to create common services for other apps to run atop. Don't get too tripped up with limited modes of thinking, with applying only your model of what you know. An OS is an abstract idea: it doesn't have to be limited to a thing running on bare metal. And indeed, given the prevalence of data centers & hyperscalers, I'd wager a very sizable portion of OSes running today are virtualized, are guest OSes running on other host OS.
  - metadat 3y ago
    On mobile (Android/Brave), all I see is Tux stop the Earth, and it's zoom-able. Is this the intended experience?
linuxontheweb 3y ago
So I guess I'll start. AMA. It's been my baby for over a decade of my life.
- jerbear4328 3y ago
  This seems like a cool concept, but it doesn't seem concrete to me. What exactly does it do? What kind of real-world things does this enable?What can we do with this that we couldn't before?
  - linuxontheweb 3y ago
    If by "real-world" you are specifically talking about the commercial space, I wouldn't hold my breath. I can only imagine there first being a DIY/hobbyist scene attached to it, and then possibly an academic/research scene. I think it could trivially enable all the micro-applications that people are constantly dreaming up... the kinds of things that are hidden away in all the various shell or python scripts across creation, as well as the little web apps all over github that just can't get any traction. I think this could be a project to sort of unite all of those things under a common umbrella.
    - eclipxe 3y ago
      Like what micro applications? Examples you have in mind?
      - linuxontheweb 3y ago
        Hmm... maybe dumb little things like automatically downloading the youtube videos from a certain channel so you can just have them right in your browser to watch whenever and however you want.
    - SahAssar 3y ago
      I don't think the parent meant commercial use-cases, more like what can you actually do? Or what is a concrete use-case that you are testing it for? Or what is one goal for it to do in the future?
staflow 3y ago
Are you planning to add a browser inside?
- linuxontheweb 3y ago
  I think a better concept along those lines might be to work on a websocket bridge (e.g. via Node.js) to the "outside world" in order to offer the various kinds of services that can be difficult in a web browser context due to CORS policies.
tomComb 3y ago
You should make the text reflow on mobile.
- linuxontheweb 3y ago
  Sorry, I'm kind of old. I never got the hang of dealing with mobile things! (I assume this is in reference to the hand-coded html document entitled "What is Linux on the Web?" rather than the desktop environment itself.)
  - r3trohack3r 3y ago
    I feel you, and I still roll hand crafted HTML and css for all my projects. This doc helped me, basically my one stop shop for making text reflow and telling mobile browsers that they shouldn’t try to “fix it” for me: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/CSS_layout/Responsive_Design https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/CSS_layou... But for what it’s worth, looks fine to me as is on iOS safari.
    - a1o 3y ago
      How do you get anything more than Tux sitting on a globe in iOS Safari?
      - r3trohack3r 3y ago
        Oh, you’re right, I was referring to the docs pages. Clicking through, all I see is Tux on a globe.
coining 3y ago
This is nonsense, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Linux, and appears to be completely useless.
phendrenad2 3y ago
Interesting idea, but is it really "on the web" when it's just files stores in the user's local browser?
- linuxontheweb 3y ago
  That's an interesting philosophical point. There are definite future use cases for working with distributed or network-based file systems. But the issue I needed to solve first has always been the one dealing with the purely local aspects of the system. People need to be convinced that this local system is as rock solid as all of the local native systems they're always working with.
  - aragilar 3y ago
    The issue is that's not under your control: browsers can and will delete the data. https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/4de96193af89a6dd5ce682ce2adff49a https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/4de96193af89a6dd5ce682ce2... covers the issues related to indexeddb, and I wouldn't be surprised that similar limitations exist OPFS. Practically, either you have internet, and so storing data elsewhere is more robust (and treating any browser-based storage as a cache), or you don't, and running a "native" app is simpler than trying to run a PWA in the offline browser (and storing the data on the local file system means users can actually access the files outside your system, vs whatever opaque setup the browsers have). That's not to say your system isn't interesting, it's that it's likely going to hit many of the same issues as previous approaches in this area (e.g. https://offlinefirst.org https://offlinefirst.org), and so you need to work out how to solve those issues.
ubutler 3y ago
Does this support iOS WebKit? All I see is Tux sitting on a globe.
- kylecazar 3y ago
  Try viewing in desktop mode. There's a UI menu launcher in the bottom left.
DustinBrett 3y ago
The desktop icon grid is done well. I like the animation when you move multiple icons. Also the autocomplete on the Terminal is a nice touch. Good job! I look forward to seeing future additions to it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
GillSatfill 3y ago
[dead]
- Tiberium 3y ago
  The link you provided is completely different - it's free disposable real Linux servers (more specifically it's probably just containers) that you can easily ssh into, or even connect from the browser.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
smusamashah 3y ago
How is this different from other web desktop environments like https://www.windows93.net https://www.windows93.net ?
zilti 3y ago
This is awful. We need to back out of the browser, not dig ourselves deeper and deeper into that engineering mistake.

68 points by linuxontheweb 3y ago

I see that this is a labor of love, but I read through the whole page and couldn’t understand exactly what it does. Perhaps a screen recording showing how it works and how to install it?

linuxontheweb 3y ago
It's a purely web-based desktop environment sitting at https://linuxontheweb.github.io/ https://linuxontheweb.github.io/. That was the first link on the page. I've already tested it on Chrome, Edge and Firefox. I don't have access to Safari, so you can possibly let me know if there are any issues with it.
- pengaru 3y ago
  > error { target: IDBOpenDBRequest, isTrusted: true, srcElement: IDBOpenDBRequest, eventPhase: 0, bubbles: true, cancelable: true, returnValue: true, defaultPrevented: false, composed: false, timeStamp: 387, … } > <empty string> util.js:640:15 > > Uncaught (in promise) ReferenceError: Y is not defined > init https://linuxontheweb.github.io/sys/fs.js:199
  - linuxontheweb 3y ago
    Hopefully fixed now!
- johnea 3y ago
  But, don't you have to run an OS to access the web?
  - jauntywundrkind 3y ago
    From Wikipedia, > An operating system (OS) is system software that manages computer hardware and software resources, and provides common services for computer programs. The web browser certainly provides a broad base of hardware and software resources that could be managed to create common services for other apps to run atop. Don't get too tripped up with limited modes of thinking, with applying only your model of what you know. An OS is an abstract idea: it doesn't have to be limited to a thing running on bare metal. And indeed, given the prevalence of data centers & hyperscalers, I'd wager a very sizable portion of OSes running today are virtualized, are guest OSes running on other host OS.
- metadat 3y ago
  On mobile (Android/Brave), all I see is Tux stop the Earth, and it's zoom-able. Is this the intended experience?

linuxontheweb 3y ago

So I guess I'll start. AMA. It's been my baby for over a decade of my life.

jerbear4328 3y ago
This seems like a cool concept, but it doesn't seem concrete to me. What exactly does it do? What kind of real-world things does this enable?What can we do with this that we couldn't before?
- linuxontheweb 3y ago
  If by "real-world" you are specifically talking about the commercial space, I wouldn't hold my breath. I can only imagine there first being a DIY/hobbyist scene attached to it, and then possibly an academic/research scene. I think it could trivially enable all the micro-applications that people are constantly dreaming up... the kinds of things that are hidden away in all the various shell or python scripts across creation, as well as the little web apps all over github that just can't get any traction. I think this could be a project to sort of unite all of those things under a common umbrella.
  - eclipxe 3y ago
    Like what micro applications? Examples you have in mind?
    - linuxontheweb 3y ago
      Hmm... maybe dumb little things like automatically downloading the youtube videos from a certain channel so you can just have them right in your browser to watch whenever and however you want.
  - SahAssar 3y ago
    I don't think the parent meant commercial use-cases, more like what can you actually do? Or what is a concrete use-case that you are testing it for? Or what is one goal for it to do in the future?

staflow 3y ago

Are you planning to add a browser inside?

linuxontheweb 3y ago
I think a better concept along those lines might be to work on a websocket bridge (e.g. via Node.js) to the "outside world" in order to offer the various kinds of services that can be difficult in a web browser context due to CORS policies.

tomComb 3y ago

You should make the text reflow on mobile.

linuxontheweb 3y ago
Sorry, I'm kind of old. I never got the hang of dealing with mobile things! (I assume this is in reference to the hand-coded html document entitled "What is Linux on the Web?" rather than the desktop environment itself.)
- r3trohack3r 3y ago
  I feel you, and I still roll hand crafted HTML and css for all my projects. This doc helped me, basically my one stop shop for making text reflow and telling mobile browsers that they shouldn’t try to “fix it” for me: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/CSS_layout/Responsive_Design https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/CSS/CSS_layou... But for what it’s worth, looks fine to me as is on iOS safari.
  - a1o 3y ago
    How do you get anything more than Tux sitting on a globe in iOS Safari?
    - r3trohack3r 3y ago
      Oh, you’re right, I was referring to the docs pages. Clicking through, all I see is Tux on a globe.

coining 3y ago

This is nonsense, it has nothing whatsoever to do with Linux, and appears to be completely useless.

phendrenad2 3y ago

Interesting idea, but is it really "on the web" when it's just files stores in the user's local browser?

linuxontheweb 3y ago
That's an interesting philosophical point. There are definite future use cases for working with distributed or network-based file systems. But the issue I needed to solve first has always been the one dealing with the purely local aspects of the system. People need to be convinced that this local system is as rock solid as all of the local native systems they're always working with.
- aragilar 3y ago
  The issue is that's not under your control: browsers can and will delete the data. https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/4de96193af89a6dd5ce682ce2adff49a https://gist.github.com/pesterhazy/4de96193af89a6dd5ce682ce2... covers the issues related to indexeddb, and I wouldn't be surprised that similar limitations exist OPFS. Practically, either you have internet, and so storing data elsewhere is more robust (and treating any browser-based storage as a cache), or you don't, and running a "native" app is simpler than trying to run a PWA in the offline browser (and storing the data on the local file system means users can actually access the files outside your system, vs whatever opaque setup the browsers have). That's not to say your system isn't interesting, it's that it's likely going to hit many of the same issues as previous approaches in this area (e.g. https://offlinefirst.org https://offlinefirst.org), and so you need to work out how to solve those issues.

ubutler 3y ago

Does this support iOS WebKit? All I see is Tux sitting on a globe.

kylecazar 3y ago
Try viewing in desktop mode. There's a UI menu launcher in the bottom left.

DustinBrett 3y ago

The desktop icon grid is done well. I like the animation when you move multiple icons. Also the autocomplete on the Terminal is a nice touch. Good job! I look forward to seeing future additions to it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

GillSatfill 3y ago

[dead]

Tiberium 3y ago
The link you provided is completely different - it's free disposable real Linux servers (more specifically it's probably just containers) that you can easily ssh into, or even connect from the browser.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

smusamashah 3y ago

How is this different from other web desktop environments like https://www.windows93.net https://www.windows93.net ?

zilti 3y ago

This is awful. We need to back out of the browser, not dig ourselves deeper and deeper into that engineering mistake.