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> ... such an efficiency powerhouse ... I think this is just a cliché. There are a lot of examples in the public, the semi-public and the private sector were G

> ... such an efficiency powerhouse ... I think this is just a cliché. There are a lot of examples in the public, the semi-public and the private sector were Germany is or became very inefficient or missed opportunities (long-distance trains, mobile phone prices and coverage, Berlin public administration, Berlin airport, Stuttgart train station, but also Deutsche Bank, Siemens, Bayer, BASF, not to speak of Quelle and Holzmann in the past). However, one should not forget the special circumstances due to German reunification in the last 30+ years. In terms of GDP and population proportion it would be equivalent if the USA opened its border to Mexico today and gives all Mexicans US citizenship immediately. Than Mexico joins the USA 11 month later. After 10 years the USA gives up the US-Dollar for a Pan-American currency. For the 3 decades after the Mexico-USA unification the old USA transfers aprox. 2,000,000,000,000 to old Mexico. -- Perhaps this thought experiment makes it clear that it would have been more than a miracle if the high degree of efficiency that was associated with the old West-Germany could have been seamlessly continued into a reunified Germany. But allow the Germans another 34 years ... Regarding long distance travelling (people as well as freight), Germany is also in a quite unique situation. It is in the center of major European long distance routes from every direction. In comparision even the traffic network topography of Austria and Switzerland is a lot simpler. In Austria it is North-South over the Brenner to Italy and NW-SE from Central Europe to South-East Europe. Switzerland is primarily NE-SW (Basel-Geneva) and a single major North-South train route (Zürich/Luzern-Lugano). Just compare this map of the Swiss railway system (ignore the red lines, which are more or less only used for local transport): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personenverkehr_in_der_Schweiz#/media/Datei:Railwaysystem_Switzerland_2017.svg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personenverkehr_in_der_Schweiz... with that of Germany: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany#/media/File:Bahnstrecken_Deutschland_Karte.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Germany#/med...

s1artibartfast 3y ago
>However, one should not forget the special circumstances due to German reunification in the last 30+ years. This is extremely misleading. Eastern Germany had a better educational system than the west and higher female labor participation. A better example might be like if the USA opened it's boarder to Cuba, and was flooded by doctors and engineers.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  Of course there are a lot of aspects, were the two situations are different. But I did clearly state that the parallels are "in terms of GDP and population proportion", which are two major general numbers typically used to sort countries into categories. Cuba has aprox. 12 times less people than Mexico and its GDP is aprox. 7 times less (but twice as much per capita). So you would need between 7 and 12 Cubas to join the USA to make the comparison working. My only point was to find an analogy that illustrates the approximate order of magnitude.
t8sr 3y ago
Your characterization of the Swiss situation is inaccurate - it’s much more complex than you say for three reasons: 1) There are actually many more corridors, of which Basel-Geneva is not really an important one. St Gallen - Zurich - Bern - Geneva and Basel-Lugano are the main ones, but there are two routes between Bern and Geneva, there are trains connecting Zurich to the South East and trains connecting Bern to Visp and Sion. On top of that you have non-SBB companies like ZB. 2) The topography of the country is complex with lakes and mountains everywhere. 3) The scale is off: Germany is massive and you’re showing a map that includes the Berlin S-bahn, while only showing major connections for Switzerland, even though that mapped is 4 times more zoomed in.
- Archelaos 3y ago
  Ad 1) I was perhaps not clear enough that I was talking about the main transit routes. I agree that especially the situation in northern Switzerland could be described as being more complicated and the route from Innsbruck to Zurich should have been included. The area between Basel, Bern and Zürich is indeed the place where traffic from different origins and destinations intermingles. Ad 2) True. Ad 3) Perhaps a better map to support my point is this one about the core Trans-European freight train network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Network#/media/File:Trans-European_Transport_Network.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Netwo... Of course this map is limited, as it does not cover passenger transport and does not show transport volume. However, the fundamental topological problem of the network in Germany should be quite apparent as there are a lot of options were traffic is changing directions and a congestion in a specific place may easily spread to other hubs. -- It is perhaps no coincidence that Europe's two largest marshalling yards are in Germany: Maschen Rangierbahnhof[1] near Hamburg and Mannheim Rangierbahnhof[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschen_Marshalling_Yard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschen_Marshalling_Yard [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Rangierbahnhof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Rangierbahnhof

s1artibartfast 3y ago

>However, one should not forget the special circumstances due to German reunification in the last 30+ years. This is extremely misleading. Eastern Germany had a better educational system than the west and higher female labor participation. A better example might be like if the USA opened it's boarder to Cuba, and was flooded by doctors and engineers.

Archelaos 3y ago
Of course there are a lot of aspects, were the two situations are different. But I did clearly state that the parallels are "in terms of GDP and population proportion", which are two major general numbers typically used to sort countries into categories. Cuba has aprox. 12 times less people than Mexico and its GDP is aprox. 7 times less (but twice as much per capita). So you would need between 7 and 12 Cubas to join the USA to make the comparison working. My only point was to find an analogy that illustrates the approximate order of magnitude.

t8sr 3y ago

Your characterization of the Swiss situation is inaccurate - it’s much more complex than you say for three reasons: 1) There are actually many more corridors, of which Basel-Geneva is not really an important one. St Gallen - Zurich - Bern - Geneva and Basel-Lugano are the main ones, but there are two routes between Bern and Geneva, there are trains connecting Zurich to the South East and trains connecting Bern to Visp and Sion. On top of that you have non-SBB companies like ZB. 2) The topography of the country is complex with lakes and mountains everywhere. 3) The scale is off: Germany is massive and you’re showing a map that includes the Berlin S-bahn, while only showing major connections for Switzerland, even though that mapped is 4 times more zoomed in.

Archelaos 3y ago
Ad 1) I was perhaps not clear enough that I was talking about the main transit routes. I agree that especially the situation in northern Switzerland could be described as being more complicated and the route from Innsbruck to Zurich should have been included. The area between Basel, Bern and Zürich is indeed the place where traffic from different origins and destinations intermingles. Ad 2) True. Ad 3) Perhaps a better map to support my point is this one about the core Trans-European freight train network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Network#/media/File:Trans-European_Transport_Network.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-European_Transport_Netwo... Of course this map is limited, as it does not cover passenger transport and does not show transport volume. However, the fundamental topological problem of the network in Germany should be quite apparent as there are a lot of options were traffic is changing directions and a congestion in a specific place may easily spread to other hubs. -- It is perhaps no coincidence that Europe's two largest marshalling yards are in Germany: Maschen Rangierbahnhof[1] near Hamburg and Mannheim Rangierbahnhof[2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschen_Marshalling_Yard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maschen_Marshalling_Yard [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Rangierbahnhof https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mannheim_Rangierbahnhof