4 ms·

I'd say it's like this for any older game which still has a multiplayer community regardless of genre. There just isn't a big influx of new players and the bad

I'd say it's like this for any older game which still has a multiplayer community regardless of genre. There just isn't a big influx of new players and the bad ones give up.

chongli 3y ago
That may be the case but other genres, such as shooters (first and third person), have found ways to get around it. Fortnite, for example, has nowhere near this issue whereas Quake 3 is plagued by it. The 100-player battle royale structure of Fortnite is one mechanism I think helps to mitigate the problem of overwhelming skill gap. This kind of thing hasn't really been tested in RTS games, which usually focus on 1v1s.
- ThatPlayer 3y ago
  Fortnite's solution has been bots, which is not very popular because plenty of people think they're above bots. Or think that bots cheat (which is true in Starcraft). Or in fighting games, they don't play like humans so you end up learning bad habits.
  - 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
    They didn't cheat on sc2 did they? They did in sc1. But regardless, with the breakthroughs in AI recently, I don't think they'd need to cheat on a hypothetical sc3.
    - ThatPlayer 3y ago
      I know in SC2 the harder AI would get free resources. I think "playing like a human" can still be an issue depending on the game. Until people want to play against AIs, there's not a lot of work put into making AIs human-like rather than just AI players. Also there still Starcraft 1 AI tournaments which are interesting. https://youtu.be/gqggsFpTAt8 https://youtu.be/gqggsFpTAt8
      - erhaetherth 3y ago
        Probably doesn't need to be perfectly human-like. If you want human-like, play against humans :-) Just keep it as fair as possible with the AIs. I didn't know they were still doing SC1 AIs, I always wanted to make one but never quite figured out how to get started.
  - hydrok9 3y ago
    The big issue with bots is that they are almost never good enough to beat a moderately skilled and muscle-memoried human player. People who try to use them to learn don't end up being any better than a n00b, as it were.
LikesPwsh 3y ago
Randomness is a big mitigator. In MtG or LoL, a worse player than the opponent might still win 40% of games (luck of the draw or teammates), even ignoring matchmaking systems. Players can aim for losing less over time, while still having a chance to win any particular game. In SC or chess any chance of success against a better player is effectively zero.

I'd say it's like this for any older game which still has a multiplayer community regardless of genre. There just isn't a big influx of new players and the bad ones give up.

chongli 3y ago

That may be the case but other genres, such as shooters (first and third person), have found ways to get around it. Fortnite, for example, has nowhere near this issue whereas Quake 3 is plagued by it. The 100-player battle royale structure of Fortnite is one mechanism I think helps to mitigate the problem of overwhelming skill gap. This kind of thing hasn't really been tested in RTS games, which usually focus on 1v1s.

ThatPlayer 3y ago
Fortnite's solution has been bots, which is not very popular because plenty of people think they're above bots. Or think that bots cheat (which is true in Starcraft). Or in fighting games, they don't play like humans so you end up learning bad habits.
- 8n4vidtmkvmk 3y ago
  They didn't cheat on sc2 did they? They did in sc1. But regardless, with the breakthroughs in AI recently, I don't think they'd need to cheat on a hypothetical sc3.
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    I know in SC2 the harder AI would get free resources. I think "playing like a human" can still be an issue depending on the game. Until people want to play against AIs, there's not a lot of work put into making AIs human-like rather than just AI players. Also there still Starcraft 1 AI tournaments which are interesting. https://youtu.be/gqggsFpTAt8 https://youtu.be/gqggsFpTAt8
    - erhaetherth 3y ago
      Probably doesn't need to be perfectly human-like. If you want human-like, play against humans :-) Just keep it as fair as possible with the AIs. I didn't know they were still doing SC1 AIs, I always wanted to make one but never quite figured out how to get started.
- hydrok9 3y ago
  The big issue with bots is that they are almost never good enough to beat a moderately skilled and muscle-memoried human player. People who try to use them to learn don't end up being any better than a n00b, as it were.

LikesPwsh 3y ago

Randomness is a big mitigator. In MtG or LoL, a worse player than the opponent might still win 40% of games (luck of the draw or teammates), even ignoring matchmaking systems. Players can aim for losing less over time, while still having a chance to win any particular game. In SC or chess any chance of success against a better player is effectively zero.