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I assume that if you pay for your car with bitcoin that has appreciated in value that you still owe capital gains tax as if you had sold it? If so what’s the ad

I assume that if you pay for your car with bitcoin that has appreciated in value that you still owe capital gains tax as if you had sold it? If so what’s the advantage of paying using bitcoin?

m00dy 3y ago
Using Bitcoin has certain advantages such as cutting off the middle man, bypassing non-transparent AML regulations and having almost instant transaction settlement without waiting for days.
- ahoka 3y ago
  Is this satire?
  - riffraff 3y ago
    it must be, the article clearly states that there is a middle man that immediately converts bitcoin in USD so Ferrari's dealers never see it, and that middle man also deals with KYC and AML stuff.
  - smegger001 3y ago
    I think it cutting the user facing middleman if given a bitcpin address from the users prospective it doesn't matter whether it goes to a wallet controlled by Ferrari or a payment processor working for Ferrari. No loan officer no bank paperwork no limits on cash withdrawal and kyc bs. Just take money out of bitcoin wallet point at address. Would I do it no. Bitcoin is speculators game not a longterm store of value but if i was an early bitcoin miner I could see the value proposition and how it might look like you could avoid the irs taking a cut
Veliladon 3y ago
Because if you're sanctioned to hell you can use Bitcoin to get around them. BitPay has been the go-to for sanctions busting for years. Even with regulators making BitPay ID mandatory for transactions over $3,000 you can still easily use a straw buyer. Want a Ferrari in Russia? Export it to China via container ship, then have it travel overland via train to Moscow.
- SXX 3y ago
  Come on. Painting crypto like some way to bypass sanctions is just laughtable when neither EU nor US have a balls to sanction enough people and enforce any of sanctions. No one of substance is on sanction lists yet and those who are don't need to bust anything. They'll just fly to Dubai and buy their Ferrari here. Or just ask one of their countless relatives living in EU or US to do it for them. The only people with Russian passport who actually use crypto is refugees who have no access to banking system in EU or someone who want to pay for their Netflix or buy some games on Steam. PS: Only around 1,000 people are under personal sanctions by US when have to be 7000+: https://acf.international/list-of-war-enablers https://acf.international/list-of-war-enablers And this list not include all their countless families living in US or EU using the money they stolen in Russia and laundered in west.
  - callalex 3y ago
    Wait but I was told the reason cryptocurrency would change the world is that it’s censorship-proof?
    - SXX 3y ago
      Cryptocurrency is too expensive and too much hassle to use when you can just come to Turkey or Dubai with $1,000,000 in a bag and put it on your bank account with no questions asked. No need for cryptocurrency when there is HSBC.
      - daft_pink 3y ago
        You just coined HSBC's new marketing slogan!
    - csa 3y ago
      > the reason cryptocurrency would change the world is that it’s censorship-proof It is… right up to the moment that you want to convert it to fiat. At that point, all bets are off. (Not sure what “censorship-proof” means exactly, but I will assume that it’s something similar to sanction-proof.)
yieldcrv 3y ago
cheaper, faster, secured lending that doesn't affect a credit score. a few minutes versus 7 - 90 business days on the consumer lending side no arbitrary transaction limit thresholds to worry about for your large purchase this infrastructure is inherited by all crypto currencies, or they can be easily converted to one that does the article is about crypto not only bitcoin but to your scenario, not everyone has a gain to worry about. if you acquired bitcoin right now to pay for something with it, there is also no gain to worry about. youd do that because thats where your liquidity is: already in other cryptos and you just bought bitcoin to pay. and of the people that only have big capital gains, not all of them care either if they wanted to purchase something, they might have to report a gain too. just saves one step of converting to USD first. they might have capital losses elsewhere they neutralize the gain. but I think you’re missing that USDC is a big component here, they accept USDC, which does not have price fluctuations so lets go to your discouraged speculator scenario: they can just deposit their bitcoin in a lending protocol and get USDC back within a few minutes. they have no capital gains tax event. and now can pay for their car without even needing an exchange relationship. and for everyone else, they just already have liquidity in crypto. They already have USDC and aren’t avoiding any new tax event either. there are also many shortsighted people that simply won’t consider the tax event. nobody’s problem but their own
- pavlov 3y ago
  > “no arbitrary transaction limit thresholds to worry about for your large purchase” This is not a problem for anyone who buys a Ferrari in cash. Banks and credit card companies love nothing more than letting you buy expensive things once you’ve shown you have the money.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    And its not a problem for crypto users that now want to buy a Ferarri either to make that point, I think you're still missing that there are already crypto users. this isn't about convincing anyone to switch to a different system anymore. its about catering to additional routes of liquidity. nobody cares about playing devil's advocate with nocoiners anymore. the world kept going, bitpay the payment processor is like 10 years old. but if you’re interested in why someone likes their crypto ecosystem, I’ll explain some behaviors.
TrapLord_Rhodo 3y ago
>If so what’s the advantage of paying using bitcoin? People who ask this also ask that same question "what’s the advantage of owning bitcoin". One example that i would like to give is that you can wrap bitcoin, and put it in a lending pool. I can then borrow up to 30-40% of the bitcoin at a very reasonable APR rate. (2-3%) Now this only works if you consider bitcoin an asset. This allows you to use this bitcoin as collateral for buying a car. People can do the same thing with stocks, real estate, etc. But with bitcoin, i have no middle man and i do not have to be "approved" or take a "Credit hit" if i make to many inquiries.

I assume that if you pay for your car with bitcoin that has appreciated in value that you still owe capital gains tax as if you had sold it? If so what’s the advantage of paying using bitcoin?

m00dy 3y ago

Using Bitcoin has certain advantages such as cutting off the middle man, bypassing non-transparent AML regulations and having almost instant transaction settlement without waiting for days.

ahoka 3y ago
Is this satire?
- riffraff 3y ago
  it must be, the article clearly states that there is a middle man that immediately converts bitcoin in USD so Ferrari's dealers never see it, and that middle man also deals with KYC and AML stuff.
- smegger001 3y ago
  I think it cutting the user facing middleman if given a bitcpin address from the users prospective it doesn't matter whether it goes to a wallet controlled by Ferrari or a payment processor working for Ferrari. No loan officer no bank paperwork no limits on cash withdrawal and kyc bs. Just take money out of bitcoin wallet point at address. Would I do it no. Bitcoin is speculators game not a longterm store of value but if i was an early bitcoin miner I could see the value proposition and how it might look like you could avoid the irs taking a cut

Veliladon 3y ago

Because if you're sanctioned to hell you can use Bitcoin to get around them. BitPay has been the go-to for sanctions busting for years. Even with regulators making BitPay ID mandatory for transactions over $3,000 you can still easily use a straw buyer. Want a Ferrari in Russia? Export it to China via container ship, then have it travel overland via train to Moscow.

SXX 3y ago
Come on. Painting crypto like some way to bypass sanctions is just laughtable when neither EU nor US have a balls to sanction enough people and enforce any of sanctions. No one of substance is on sanction lists yet and those who are don't need to bust anything. They'll just fly to Dubai and buy their Ferrari here. Or just ask one of their countless relatives living in EU or US to do it for them. The only people with Russian passport who actually use crypto is refugees who have no access to banking system in EU or someone who want to pay for their Netflix or buy some games on Steam. PS: Only around 1,000 people are under personal sanctions by US when have to be 7000+: https://acf.international/list-of-war-enablers https://acf.international/list-of-war-enablers And this list not include all their countless families living in US or EU using the money they stolen in Russia and laundered in west.
- callalex 3y ago
  Wait but I was told the reason cryptocurrency would change the world is that it’s censorship-proof?
  - SXX 3y ago
    Cryptocurrency is too expensive and too much hassle to use when you can just come to Turkey or Dubai with $1,000,000 in a bag and put it on your bank account with no questions asked. No need for cryptocurrency when there is HSBC.
    - daft_pink 3y ago
      You just coined HSBC's new marketing slogan!
  - csa 3y ago
    > the reason cryptocurrency would change the world is that it’s censorship-proof It is… right up to the moment that you want to convert it to fiat. At that point, all bets are off. (Not sure what “censorship-proof” means exactly, but I will assume that it’s something similar to sanction-proof.)

yieldcrv 3y ago

cheaper, faster, secured lending that doesn't affect a credit score. a few minutes versus 7 - 90 business days on the consumer lending side no arbitrary transaction limit thresholds to worry about for your large purchase this infrastructure is inherited by all crypto currencies, or they can be easily converted to one that does the article is about crypto not only bitcoin but to your scenario, not everyone has a gain to worry about. if you acquired bitcoin right now to pay for something with it, there is also no gain to worry about. youd do that because thats where your liquidity is: already in other cryptos and you just bought bitcoin to pay. and of the people that only have big capital gains, not all of them care either if they wanted to purchase something, they might have to report a gain too. just saves one step of converting to USD first. they might have capital losses elsewhere they neutralize the gain. but I think you’re missing that USDC is a big component here, they accept USDC, which does not have price fluctuations so lets go to your discouraged speculator scenario: they can just deposit their bitcoin in a lending protocol and get USDC back within a few minutes. they have no capital gains tax event. and now can pay for their car without even needing an exchange relationship. and for everyone else, they just already have liquidity in crypto. They already have USDC and aren’t avoiding any new tax event either. there are also many shortsighted people that simply won’t consider the tax event. nobody’s problem but their own

pavlov 3y ago
> “no arbitrary transaction limit thresholds to worry about for your large purchase” This is not a problem for anyone who buys a Ferrari in cash. Banks and credit card companies love nothing more than letting you buy expensive things once you’ve shown you have the money.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  And its not a problem for crypto users that now want to buy a Ferarri either to make that point, I think you're still missing that there are already crypto users. this isn't about convincing anyone to switch to a different system anymore. its about catering to additional routes of liquidity. nobody cares about playing devil's advocate with nocoiners anymore. the world kept going, bitpay the payment processor is like 10 years old. but if you’re interested in why someone likes their crypto ecosystem, I’ll explain some behaviors.

TrapLord_Rhodo 3y ago

>If so what’s the advantage of paying using bitcoin? People who ask this also ask that same question "what’s the advantage of owning bitcoin". One example that i would like to give is that you can wrap bitcoin, and put it in a lending pool. I can then borrow up to 30-40% of the bitcoin at a very reasonable APR rate. (2-3%) Now this only works if you consider bitcoin an asset. This allows you to use this bitcoin as collateral for buying a car. People can do the same thing with stocks, real estate, etc. But with bitcoin, i have no middle man and i do not have to be "approved" or take a "Credit hit" if i make to many inquiries.