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I’m not sure I understand : European Commissioners are nominated by elected National governments, and approved by parliament. How is this not democratic ? Wheth

I’m not sure I understand : European Commissioners are nominated by elected National governments, and approved by parliament. How is this not democratic ? Whether you agree with these policies or not is a different matter altogether.

owlstuffing 3y ago
Perhaps the sentiment is more about how our expectations of democracy are completely out of line with the results of democracy.
- malermeister 3y ago
  That is because of the fatal flaw of democracy: The demos is people and the majority of people are stupid.
- Agingcoder 3y ago
  Indeed, you’re most likely right. I’ve seen around me a growing sentiment along the lines of ´ my views and candidates didn’t win so democracy doesn’t work’ coupled with ´this allows me to claim that violence / authoritarian regime with my views is ok’. I wonder whether people are slowly realizing now that democracy has limits, whereas they used not to, and don’t like it. Democracy essentially says that you have a say, but so does everyone else, so it’s going to be messier than expected !
throwaway50662 3y ago
National government is a very different thing from national parliament. In my state the national government came out of a political compromise. The leading party has 15% support. They are limited by the national parliament in whatever they try to do here - but not in EC. Giving them control over the whole population through the EC is a spit in the face of 85% of the population. And it's very visible right on this issue - the leading party supports what the rest of the population would label as totalitarian and oppressive. They tried but were unable to pass stuff like this at home, but they support it in the EC.
- Agingcoder 3y ago
  No, the EC can’t do anything unless it’s approved by European Parliament. It’s another unexpected aspects of European institutions : most people don’t understand how they work. Local, national political parties abuse this by essentially blaming the EC for just about anything. If things go well it’s thanks to them, if not it’s because of the EC. Local politicians have no interest in making sure regular people understand how Europe works. Note that this is all independent of whether the EC is good or bad - just about basic facts.
  - throwaway50662 3y ago
    Indeed - they can do whatever the EP approves, which is usually very different from what the few EP seats and the entire national parliament of our state vote for.

owlstuffing 3y ago

Perhaps the sentiment is more about how our expectations of democracy are completely out of line with the results of democracy.

malermeister 3y ago
That is because of the fatal flaw of democracy: The demos is people and the majority of people are stupid.
Agingcoder 3y ago
Indeed, you’re most likely right. I’ve seen around me a growing sentiment along the lines of ´ my views and candidates didn’t win so democracy doesn’t work’ coupled with ´this allows me to claim that violence / authoritarian regime with my views is ok’. I wonder whether people are slowly realizing now that democracy has limits, whereas they used not to, and don’t like it. Democracy essentially says that you have a say, but so does everyone else, so it’s going to be messier than expected !

throwaway50662 3y ago

National government is a very different thing from national parliament. In my state the national government came out of a political compromise. The leading party has 15% support. They are limited by the national parliament in whatever they try to do here - but not in EC. Giving them control over the whole population through the EC is a spit in the face of 85% of the population. And it's very visible right on this issue - the leading party supports what the rest of the population would label as totalitarian and oppressive. They tried but were unable to pass stuff like this at home, but they support it in the EC.

Agingcoder 3y ago
No, the EC can’t do anything unless it’s approved by European Parliament. It’s another unexpected aspects of European institutions : most people don’t understand how they work. Local, national political parties abuse this by essentially blaming the EC for just about anything. If things go well it’s thanks to them, if not it’s because of the EC. Local politicians have no interest in making sure regular people understand how Europe works. Note that this is all independent of whether the EC is good or bad - just about basic facts.
- throwaway50662 3y ago
  Indeed - they can do whatever the EP approves, which is usually very different from what the few EP seats and the entire national parliament of our state vote for.