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They want to overplay their hand. An oppressive internet that they can bully, works for them. An internet that withdraws into itself and the EU returns to pen

They want to overplay their hand. An oppressive internet that they can bully, works for them. An internet that withdraws into itself and the EU returns to pen and paper + dumb phones works for them. The US is all on this. As long as the US owns the internet and big tech, they are happy to let other countries do the dirty work of setting boundaries. The long term solution is to 'manualize' tech. Make all tech we touch, open and ready to modify, run at full capacity and be easily controlled by a single man. The only way to keep tech free, is to take it out of the System's hands and put it into the hands of the average joe, for his control. And feed the machines silence.

csomar 3y ago
They are under-estimating the level of development in tech in the "global south" which has a differing agenda. There is now enough talent and capital in the global south to kick-start tech companies and actually it's cheaper there. The problem is that they need time to catch up to the Western big tech. Why would anyone use a local chat/social app if Twitter and Instagram exists. Now, if they are being deplatformed, it'll be a different situation.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  The Global South is overwhelmingly fond of WhatsApp, to the point that it has basically replaced the PSTN in some countries. And if this EU legislation passed, Meta would almost certainly get on board in order to not lose the European market. Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow?
  - logicchains 3y ago
    >Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow? In the Middle East and North Africa (and Russia) Telegram seems to be competitive with WhatsApp in popularity, because people trust it more than the US-owned WhatsApp.
    - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
      I have spent a lot of the last five years traveling the MENA region by bike, and the random local people I meet overwhelmingly want to exchange WhatsApp contact info (and are shocked to discover I don't have it, as I use only Signal). Sure, Telegram is around too, but WhatsApp's position is strong, and in any event Telegram is not a locally developed solution. Your claim that people trust Telegram more is a stretch. I daresay the masses in the Global South think little about where their apps come from and are poorly informed about tech matters, just like in the Global North.
      - csomar 3y ago
        Telegram is now based in Dubai.
        OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        As a legal formality. A journalist who visited the registered address in Dubai fairly recently found no one at home. The app is honestly regarded as a Russian product.
      - logicchains 3y ago
        WhatsApp hasn't currently given them any reason to switch. If Meta decided to censor text supporting Palestine on WhatsApp, as it has just decided to do on Instagram and Facebook, you can bet most of them would ditch it for Telegram.
- barrysteve 3y ago
  It's pretty trivial to list reasons why you'd want a local chat app over a US created one. It is just too difficult to make. I don't think many people admit how differently we all think about software creation, all the tools that currently exist are shaped 100% around American big tech needs (cool i guess) and the American personality. It is incredibly difficult to go off-piste and create a different paradigm on computing like Xerox did (which Jobs and Gates 'borrowed from'). The existing eco-system constantly updates/changes itself according to an American clock, so you get isolated and disconnected (from knowledge bases and relationships) if you try to go for a 'long shot'. Even making small changes have to fit in with the existing eco-system. 99% of all the new ideas that could be made require radically different tooling and that is deeply expensive, constantly contentious with existing powers and disruptive to current services. Sinply changing Google maps to list street names even when fully zoomed out OR to suggest vocaly three-moves-in-advance when driving.. is basically impossible. Tech has clamped itself down and has no desire to allow anyone to tinker or tailor their own solutions. It is deeply deeply frustrating to see what could be made better and to be arbitrarily locked out.
  - csomar 3y ago
    You are kinda expanding on my point? It doesn't make sense to go and build alternatives when the current platforms are just much better and already developed. However, when you are de-platformed, you are forced to build alternatives. Arabs are not going to change their minds about the conflict because the EU only allows a single narrative. That will probably just make them stick more to their point of view.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    Maps are actually a case where non-American solutions have succeeded to some degree: in the travel community outside North America, OSM-based apps like Komoot, Maps.me, and the Maps.me successor Organic Maps are very popular. Indeed, someone complaining about how Google Maps sucks is often a case of "spot the American/Canadian".

csomar 3y ago

They are under-estimating the level of development in tech in the "global south" which has a differing agenda. There is now enough talent and capital in the global south to kick-start tech companies and actually it's cheaper there. The problem is that they need time to catch up to the Western big tech. Why would anyone use a local chat/social app if Twitter and Instagram exists. Now, if they are being deplatformed, it'll be a different situation.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
The Global South is overwhelmingly fond of WhatsApp, to the point that it has basically replaced the PSTN in some countries. And if this EU legislation passed, Meta would almost certainly get on board in order to not lose the European market. Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow?
- logicchains 3y ago
  >Where do you see deplatforming, or the shaking of WhatsApp’s monopoly and room for a local competitor to grow? In the Middle East and North Africa (and Russia) Telegram seems to be competitive with WhatsApp in popularity, because people trust it more than the US-owned WhatsApp.
  - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
    I have spent a lot of the last five years traveling the MENA region by bike, and the random local people I meet overwhelmingly want to exchange WhatsApp contact info (and are shocked to discover I don't have it, as I use only Signal). Sure, Telegram is around too, but WhatsApp's position is strong, and in any event Telegram is not a locally developed solution. Your claim that people trust Telegram more is a stretch. I daresay the masses in the Global South think little about where their apps come from and are poorly informed about tech matters, just like in the Global North.
    - csomar 3y ago
      Telegram is now based in Dubai.
      - OfSanguineFire 3y ago
        As a legal formality. A journalist who visited the registered address in Dubai fairly recently found no one at home. The app is honestly regarded as a Russian product.
    - logicchains 3y ago
      WhatsApp hasn't currently given them any reason to switch. If Meta decided to censor text supporting Palestine on WhatsApp, as it has just decided to do on Instagram and Facebook, you can bet most of them would ditch it for Telegram.
barrysteve 3y ago
It's pretty trivial to list reasons why you'd want a local chat app over a US created one. It is just too difficult to make. I don't think many people admit how differently we all think about software creation, all the tools that currently exist are shaped 100% around American big tech needs (cool i guess) and the American personality. It is incredibly difficult to go off-piste and create a different paradigm on computing like Xerox did (which Jobs and Gates 'borrowed from'). The existing eco-system constantly updates/changes itself according to an American clock, so you get isolated and disconnected (from knowledge bases and relationships) if you try to go for a 'long shot'. Even making small changes have to fit in with the existing eco-system. 99% of all the new ideas that could be made require radically different tooling and that is deeply expensive, constantly contentious with existing powers and disruptive to current services. Sinply changing Google maps to list street names even when fully zoomed out OR to suggest vocaly three-moves-in-advance when driving.. is basically impossible. Tech has clamped itself down and has no desire to allow anyone to tinker or tailor their own solutions. It is deeply deeply frustrating to see what could be made better and to be arbitrarily locked out.
- csomar 3y ago
  You are kinda expanding on my point? It doesn't make sense to go and build alternatives when the current platforms are just much better and already developed. However, when you are de-platformed, you are forced to build alternatives. Arabs are not going to change their minds about the conflict because the EU only allows a single narrative. That will probably just make them stick more to their point of view.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  Maps are actually a case where non-American solutions have succeeded to some degree: in the travel community outside North America, OSM-based apps like Komoot, Maps.me, and the Maps.me successor Organic Maps are very popular. Indeed, someone complaining about how Google Maps sucks is often a case of "spot the American/Canadian".