4 ms·

Most traffic laws in SF are not being enforced due to, not kidding at all, equity: https://sfstandard.com/2023/01/11/sf-police-watchdogs-set-to-decide-ban-on-c

Most traffic laws in SF are not being enforced due to, not kidding at all, equity: https://sfstandard.com/2023/01/11/sf-police-watchdogs-set-to-decide-ban-on-cops-pulling-over-drivers-for-low-level-traffic-offenses/ https://sfstandard.com/2023/01/11/sf-police-watchdogs-set-to... https://www.visionzerosf.org/equity/ https://www.visionzerosf.org/equity/ https://visionzeronetwork.org/addressing-unjust-financial-penalties-in-traffic-safety-vision-zero/ https://visionzeronetwork.org/addressing-unjust-financial-pe...

deleted 3y ago
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bloudermilk 3y ago
The exaggeration is undermining your point. What actually happened according to the linked article: > The vote to approve the proposal came after months of public scrutiny and changes to the plan that ultimately shrunk the proposed list of banned stops from 18 different types of offenses to nine, among them driving with an expired registration and driving with a broken taillight.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  My point still stands though. Most laws are still not practically enforced despite officially just a subset not being enforced. Traffic citations in San Francisco declined by 97% in eight years. https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/traffic-citations-san-francisco-declined-97-18363007.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/traffic-citations-san...
b112 3y ago
It’s clear that the criminal justice system and related financial penalties associated with traffic citations disproportionately harm people of color and people living on low incomes. No validation, no proof, no "why", just "it's clear". Low incomes makes some sense, in that, fines take up income! So $10 is not the same to one, as another. Yet most fines have points, and that means money is most assuredly not the only factor. But I really dislike the idea that "people of colour" are apparently all miscreants, and therefore always doing wrong things, and thus are always being charged. It's not true. And... here's a shocker... I'm white, and I've had speeding tickets, red light tickets, parking tickets and so on. How is this even possible?! Apparently all those white cops that write me tickets, are just doing so to hide their true goal. Getting that minority! I know tje US has some problems with policing, but turning streets into death zones, due to non-policing isn't the solution. Put another way, you're living in a poor, or minority neighbourhood. Recently, people are screeching up and down the street, driving drunk and mega-high, injuries are up, and some asshole almost killed your kid. You call, and the cops say that for your own good, they won't go after the guy. Wow! A great win for minority rights!
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > But I really dislike the idea that "people of colour" are apparently all miscreants, and therefore always doing wrong things, and thus are always being charged. That's not the idea. The idea is that people of color ar disproportionately targeted, compared to others in similar objective circumstances, for traffic stops, and this overlaps considerably with the use of certain minor traffic offenses as pretexts to look for excuses for arrest on other charges, so that bias in traffic stops is foundational to broader enforcement biases. There's plenty of individual local jurisdictions and larger areas where this has been studied and proven out (and sonetimes been part of the basis of US DOJ action against the offending local jurisdiction), though I’m not familiar with evidence related to SF specifically.
  - cscurmudgeon 3y ago
    If people are being targeted due to race, there should be policies to fix that, not throw out enforcement of laws altogether. E.g., it is well known and acknowledged that IRS targeted conservatives. Do we then go and abolish taxes because of that? https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-...

deleted 3y ago

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bloudermilk 3y ago

The exaggeration is undermining your point. What actually happened according to the linked article: > The vote to approve the proposal came after months of public scrutiny and changes to the plan that ultimately shrunk the proposed list of banned stops from 18 different types of offenses to nine, among them driving with an expired registration and driving with a broken taillight.

cscurmudgeon 3y ago
My point still stands though. Most laws are still not practically enforced despite officially just a subset not being enforced. Traffic citations in San Francisco declined by 97% in eight years. https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/traffic-citations-san-francisco-declined-97-18363007.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/sf/article/traffic-citations-san...

b112 3y ago

It’s clear that the criminal justice system and related financial penalties associated with traffic citations disproportionately harm people of color and people living on low incomes. No validation, no proof, no "why", just "it's clear". Low incomes makes some sense, in that, fines take up income! So $10 is not the same to one, as another. Yet most fines have points, and that means money is most assuredly not the only factor. But I really dislike the idea that "people of colour" are apparently all miscreants, and therefore always doing wrong things, and thus are always being charged. It's not true. And... here's a shocker... I'm white, and I've had speeding tickets, red light tickets, parking tickets and so on. How is this even possible?! Apparently all those white cops that write me tickets, are just doing so to hide their true goal. Getting that minority! I know tje US has some problems with policing, but turning streets into death zones, due to non-policing isn't the solution. Put another way, you're living in a poor, or minority neighbourhood. Recently, people are screeching up and down the street, driving drunk and mega-high, injuries are up, and some asshole almost killed your kid. You call, and the cops say that for your own good, they won't go after the guy. Wow! A great win for minority rights!

dragonwriter 3y ago
> But I really dislike the idea that "people of colour" are apparently all miscreants, and therefore always doing wrong things, and thus are always being charged. That's not the idea. The idea is that people of color ar disproportionately targeted, compared to others in similar objective circumstances, for traffic stops, and this overlaps considerably with the use of certain minor traffic offenses as pretexts to look for excuses for arrest on other charges, so that bias in traffic stops is foundational to broader enforcement biases. There's plenty of individual local jurisdictions and larger areas where this has been studied and proven out (and sonetimes been part of the basis of US DOJ action against the offending local jurisdiction), though I’m not familiar with evidence related to SF specifically.
- cscurmudgeon 3y ago
  If people are being targeted due to race, there should be policies to fix that, not throw out enforcement of laws altogether. E.g., it is well known and acknowledged that IRS targeted conservatives. Do we then go and abolish taxes because of that? https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-aggressive-scrutiny-of-conservative-groups https://www.npr.org/2017/10/27/560308997/irs-apologizes-for-...