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> Red light cameras are just a profit center that do not increase safety and usually cause more accidents. Is there any research suggesting that?

davidrhunt 3y ago
Lots of info from NHTSA [1]. Like many complex things, it's tricky. "While the presence of a red light camera system has reflected increased numbers of lower impact rear end crashes at intersections where the systems are installed resulting from drivers stopping for the red light, research has also found a reduction in more dangerous offset and right angle crashes at intersections with red light cameras". In general it seems like a win to me but if you get into technicalities then yes, some research has shown more low-impact rear end collisions. They go on to say "Additional studies may provide greater insight into whether or not such crashes persist where the technology is in place for longer periods of time. The effect of warning signs, public education, and familiarity with the presence of the system in the fullness of time is not clear." [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures/countermeasures/21-automated-enforcement https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures/countermeasures/2...
- barbazoo 3y ago
  > In general it seems like a win to me but if you get into technicalities then yes, some research has shown more low-impact rear end collisions. Plus that way it only affects a speeder and a tailgater, not a speeder and someone else. Lose lose win but in a fairer kind of way.
LorenPechtel 3y ago
1) It replaces intersection crashes with crashes approaching the intersection when people slam on the brakes because of a yellow. Net harm increases. 2) *Most* red light tickets are people turning right on red in a safe fashion. The reality (at least in the US) is that cameras are only economic where there's a problem with the situation that causes reasonable behavior to be illegal.
- barbazoo 3y ago
  > It replaces intersection crashes with crashes approaching the intersection when people slam on the brakes because of a yellow. Net harm increases. Again, no sources but even if it was true, and it very well may be, I'd actually prefer someone driving too close rear ending someone driving too fast to someone driving too fast hitting someone who's likely not done anything wrong.
  - LorenPechtel 3y ago
    Even given the different impacts injuries go up.
infecto 3y ago
Saw that someone already posted some of the data which is correct. When implemented correctly it’s complicated. Rear collisions tend to increase and a reductions in red light running. Unfortunately there were a number of cases where the third party who implemented the system, reduced the yellow light to below the legal minimum. I am a fan of this channel and he has good background on LA removing them. https://youtu.be/pH9dnJ8BmY0?si=7R84dVQSmnmvTz8Z https://youtu.be/pH9dnJ8BmY0?si=7R84dVQSmnmvTz8Z https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras...

davidrhunt 3y ago

Lots of info from NHTSA [1]. Like many complex things, it's tricky. "While the presence of a red light camera system has reflected increased numbers of lower impact rear end crashes at intersections where the systems are installed resulting from drivers stopping for the red light, research has also found a reduction in more dangerous offset and right angle crashes at intersections with red light cameras". In general it seems like a win to me but if you get into technicalities then yes, some research has shown more low-impact rear end collisions. They go on to say "Additional studies may provide greater insight into whether or not such crashes persist where the technology is in place for longer periods of time. The effect of warning signs, public education, and familiarity with the presence of the system in the fullness of time is not clear." [1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures/countermeasures/21-automated-enforcement https://www.nhtsa.gov/book/countermeasures/countermeasures/2...

barbazoo 3y ago
> In general it seems like a win to me but if you get into technicalities then yes, some research has shown more low-impact rear end collisions. Plus that way it only affects a speeder and a tailgater, not a speeder and someone else. Lose lose win but in a fairer kind of way.

LorenPechtel 3y ago

1) It replaces intersection crashes with crashes approaching the intersection when people slam on the brakes because of a yellow. Net harm increases. 2) *Most* red light tickets are people turning right on red in a safe fashion. The reality (at least in the US) is that cameras are only economic where there's a problem with the situation that causes reasonable behavior to be illegal.

barbazoo 3y ago
> It replaces intersection crashes with crashes approaching the intersection when people slam on the brakes because of a yellow. Net harm increases. Again, no sources but even if it was true, and it very well may be, I'd actually prefer someone driving too close rear ending someone driving too fast to someone driving too fast hitting someone who's likely not done anything wrong.
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  Even given the different impacts injuries go up.

infecto 3y ago

Saw that someone already posted some of the data which is correct. When implemented correctly it’s complicated. Rear collisions tend to increase and a reductions in red light running. Unfortunately there were a number of cases where the third party who implemented the system, reduced the yellow light to below the legal minimum. I am a fan of this channel and he has good background on LA removing them. https://youtu.be/pH9dnJ8BmY0?si=7R84dVQSmnmvTz8Z https://youtu.be/pH9dnJ8BmY0?si=7R84dVQSmnmvTz8Z https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras-may-not-make-streets-safer/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/red-light-cameras...