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from my short stint in California I recall these red-light cameras are already widely used in places like Culver city, however they are all maintained and enfor

from my short stint in California I recall these red-light cameras are already widely used in places like Culver city, however they are all maintained and enforced by a private agency. Running a red light generally produces a "ticket" from a parking enforcement agency that, if unpaid, just winds up on your credit record. this has the effect of keeping lazy rich people in $200,000 sports cars from drag racing the town as private companies routinely refer paying customers to credit agencies, but it has absolutely no effect on landscapers and housekeepers who might mistakenly run a red light in their 30 year old toyota because credit generally isnt as an extensive part of their life. conversely, government enforced speed cameras have the opposite effect. the cloistered elite routinely dash through cameras and pay the fines online, and poor people generally wind up with a bench warrant and a payment plan that saps their modest savings for years. all in all im for the cameras. given an open interstate, a california driver will pick the highest number on the speedometer. its outrageous.

Daneel_ 3y ago
Interesting. Here in Sydney, Australia, they’re all run by the government, however speeding incurs a loss of points against your license (as well as hefty fines). Lose too many points and you lose your license. This system ensures the cloistered elite are incentivised to stick to the limits too. There’s a totally separate discussion about what tolerances are used and what levels of punishment to hand out.. things here are far too strict on that front.
- bix6 3y ago
  Speeding adds points to your license but red light camera violations don’t. It’s a pure cash grab hence why they shut it down in the first place because all the private companies were cheating their way into fines by shortening light cycles. If this was truly about safety concerns then it would add points. Skimmed an article now claiming the primary concern is speeding. So why not deploy our officers with radar guns instead to add points? What’s a $50 fine for going 15mph over the speed limit gonna do? Nothing.
- morkalork 3y ago
  In Canada if speed excessively and get pulled over you get a fine and demerit points but if a camera catches you, it's just the fine. The logic being that they know your car was speeding but not who was driving it.
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Automated cameras can only fine you in the US, since they would have to prove who was driving the car to add points to your license.
  - UncleEntity 3y ago
    The only people who can force you to pay those automated tickets are the courts and they 100% have to prove who was driving the vehicle. Or, you can voluntarily pay, I suppose... One of my old neighbors got a letter (complete with a picture of the "perp") kindly asking him who was driving his car and I told him to just ignore it unless they drag him into court since they obviously knew he wasn't driving. There's also the "spousal privilege" thing, his wife was driving, so they theoretically couldn't even force him to say who the offender was.
    - aidenn0 3y ago
      It probably depends on the state; in many states you can't get out of a parking ticket by saying you weren't the person driving and there's no reason to not use the same process for speeding and red-light cameras. Of course that requires changing the laws, and some states did not do so.
deleted 3y ago
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the_optimist 3y ago
This story doesn’t hold water. Lower and middle income citizens are far more affected by and reliant on credit than the proverbial “guy in a sports car.”
davidrhunt 3y ago
Income based fines are used elsewhere [1] to try and counter some of these issues. Not sure of the barriers for this type of approach in the US but I think it would be more effective than flat fines with leniency for lower-income offenders which seem to be the approach often taken. For the CA bill: "People who meet certain income or housing criteria can also receive deductions of these fines anywhere from 50 to 80%." [2] This seems much less effective than something that is based on income. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland... [2] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/if-speed-cameras-are-installed-in-california-what-will-the-fines-be/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/if-speed-cameras-are-instal...
- zeroonetwothree 3y ago
  There are some potential constitutional barriers to income based fines in the US such as the excessive fines clause: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” Of course we don’t know how courts will rule on this since it hasn’t been tried.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
kwhitefoot 3y ago
In Europe it would eventually result in the loss of your driving licence.

Daneel_ 3y ago

Interesting. Here in Sydney, Australia, they’re all run by the government, however speeding incurs a loss of points against your license (as well as hefty fines). Lose too many points and you lose your license. This system ensures the cloistered elite are incentivised to stick to the limits too. There’s a totally separate discussion about what tolerances are used and what levels of punishment to hand out.. things here are far too strict on that front.

bix6 3y ago
Speeding adds points to your license but red light camera violations don’t. It’s a pure cash grab hence why they shut it down in the first place because all the private companies were cheating their way into fines by shortening light cycles. If this was truly about safety concerns then it would add points. Skimmed an article now claiming the primary concern is speeding. So why not deploy our officers with radar guns instead to add points? What’s a $50 fine for going 15mph over the speed limit gonna do? Nothing.
morkalork 3y ago
In Canada if speed excessively and get pulled over you get a fine and demerit points but if a camera catches you, it's just the fine. The logic being that they know your car was speeding but not who was driving it.
aidenn0 3y ago
Automated cameras can only fine you in the US, since they would have to prove who was driving the car to add points to your license.
- UncleEntity 3y ago
  The only people who can force you to pay those automated tickets are the courts and they 100% have to prove who was driving the vehicle. Or, you can voluntarily pay, I suppose... One of my old neighbors got a letter (complete with a picture of the "perp") kindly asking him who was driving his car and I told him to just ignore it unless they drag him into court since they obviously knew he wasn't driving. There's also the "spousal privilege" thing, his wife was driving, so they theoretically couldn't even force him to say who the offender was.
  - aidenn0 3y ago
    It probably depends on the state; in many states you can't get out of a parking ticket by saying you weren't the person driving and there's no reason to not use the same process for speeding and red-light cameras. Of course that requires changing the laws, and some states did not do so.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

the_optimist 3y ago

This story doesn’t hold water. Lower and middle income citizens are far more affected by and reliant on credit than the proverbial “guy in a sports car.”

davidrhunt 3y ago

Income based fines are used elsewhere [1] to try and counter some of these issues. Not sure of the barriers for this type of approach in the US but I think it would be more effective than flat fines with leniency for lower-income offenders which seem to be the approach often taken. For the CA bill: "People who meet certain income or housing criteria can also receive deductions of these fines anywhere from 50 to 80%." [2] This seems much less effective than something that is based on income. [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland... [2] https://ktla.com/news/local-news/if-speed-cameras-are-installed-in-california-what-will-the-fines-be/ https://ktla.com/news/local-news/if-speed-cameras-are-instal...

zeroonetwothree 3y ago
There are some potential constitutional barriers to income based fines in the US such as the excessive fines clause: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.” Of course we don’t know how courts will rule on this since it hasn’t been tried.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

kwhitefoot 3y ago

In Europe it would eventually result in the loss of your driving licence.