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You don’t buy the game but a license to play it. You can still play CS after a ban, just not online on their servers or any community servers which block vac ba

You don’t buy the game but a license to play it. You can still play CS after a ban, just not online on their servers or any community servers which block vac banned players. (They killed all community servers two weeks ago btw)

beeboobaa 3y ago
"You can play it except for the game modes people actually care about" Do you also think it's okay if a car that you bought prevents you from driving it, but oh don't worry, it's okay because you're still allowed to open the doors?
- somehnguy 3y ago
  Look, I get where you’re coming from. But ask people who actually play competitive online games and I can all but guarantee the general consensus is that anti-cheat is celebrated, not hated. Most people’s complaint with VAC would likely be that it is too lenient or too slow to ban. Some online games don’t have anti-cheat, and they become nothing but a cheating cesspool. Which consequently drives away actual players, and then you have a dead game except for essentially bots.
  - beeboobaa 3y ago
    That's the same argument as "but think of the children". Are you also fine with CSAM scanning tools being installed everywhere? It's okay to have a bunch of false positives that potentially ruin people just in case you can also catch a bad apple?
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      It's not even remotely the same argument as the CSAM one. It's not a human right to play a certain video game.
      - beeboobaa 3y ago
        Neither is owning a phone? What is your point?
        FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Because if you do own a phone then it becomes your property and the manufacturer shouldn't be allowed to invade the privacy of your data on your phone, but CS is free to play, it's not your property, it's Valve's property, and Valve is allowed to allow or ban whoever they want on it, you don't have a constitutional right to be allowed to paly CS without Valve's permission.
    - filoleg 3y ago
      > Are you also fine with CSAM scanning tools being installed everywhere? No, and neither am I ok with anticheat software doing it. Afaik, most anticheats don’t do that. They just make sure that nothing is modifying/injecting into the game code. Which is imo reasonable, as the anticheat is just monitoring for any injections/modifications to the game that it came with.
  - dbttdft 3y ago
    You argument sounds good to an executive, however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. EDIT: Why would you just downvote this, I already suspected you're one of those idiots who thinks everyone is cheating. Now I'm just convinced, and that's enough of this self masturbating forum for the month. Most cheat accusers in games are literally clueless slobs who just sign on to level up or some idiots in a closed circle of friends and think anyone who doesn't use their basic immediate method of naive play like walking into each other and clicking on each other is cheating.
    - basique 3y ago
      > however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. Have you played TF2 recently?
    - somehnguy 3y ago
      > however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. Yes, many do. Especially ones with poor anti-cheat, which tend not to be very popular - because of the aforementioned cheating. Even non-overly competitive games are rampant with cheating, take a look at GTA5 online for an easy example. Without VAC games like the counter-strike series would be completely unplayable, I have over 1000 hours in the game and have ran into my fair share of extremely obvious cheaters over the years. I suspect you don't play competitive games very much if that's your view on the matter. > Why would you just downvote this, I already suspected you're one of those idiots who thinks everyone is cheating. 1. I can't downvote you, as you're a reply to my comment. Not that I would have anyway. 2. I've never cheated in an online game (my Steam account is 17 years old..), and I'm well aware that many players are not cheating and are simply better than me. 3. No need to resort to attacking me because you disagree.
    - cgriswald 3y ago
      HN software doesn’t allow downvoting posts that are responses to your own posts. The poster couldn’t have downvoted your post just like you can’t downvote this one.
- squeaky-clean 3y ago
  This can literally happen to your car if you get a DUI. https://www.floridasafetycouncil.org/ClassName/ignition-interlock-device#:~:text=Requirements%3A,of%20reinstatement%20for%20driver%20license https://www.floridasafetycouncil.org/ClassName/ignition-inte.... And yes, I think that's okay.
  - beeboobaa 3y ago
    I'm not a murican but I assume that over there it's also legal to drive your car on your property without a license. How can they strip you of that right?
    - filoleg 3y ago
      I think the assumption in that rule is that it applies only to cars that you want to have registered and drive on public roads. Naturally, if you want to drive your car on your own private property, you won’t need a valid registration or license, so it won’t fall under that rule. So no, this law wouldn’t strip your rights to that.
    - jpc0 3y ago
      You are welcome to play CS on your own servers without being in compliance with the EULA, at this point in time you get to do that alone but that will change. Wait that's exactly what you say is wrong?
  - josephcsible 3y ago
    There's a big difference between things I'm okay with as a punishment for being convicted of a felony, and things I'm okay with being imposed by megacorps with zero due process or accountability.
    - filoleg 3y ago
      > punishment for being convicted of a felony For certain traffic violations (including DUI in some states), your car gets impounded and your license taken away on the spot, way before you get your court hearing and get charged with anything.
dns_snek 3y ago
> You don’t buy the game but a license to play it. This is such a pedantic argument that misses the point and short circuits the entire discussion. I don't think there's a single reasonable person who mistakenly believes that they're buying the IP itself when they "buy" a game on Steam. Of course it's "just" a license to play it, what's being questioned are the terms of those licenses, both from moral and legal perspective. Most current EULAs boil down to: "We reserve the right to suspend your account and revoke access to the software you paid for for any reason, no refunds". To the best of my knowledge these EULAs haven't been tested in court so they shouldn't be taken at face value. There's a lot of room to balance the rights of customers who should be granted the same rights they would enjoy when buying a physical product, and the practical needs of platforms which need to ensure a fair environment for other players. Should cheaters be allowed to ruin the experience for other players? Obviously not. Should platforms be allowed to permanently ban suspected cheaters without a fair and transparent appeals process and without offering refunds? I don't think so.
aprdm 3y ago
Games like Diablo 4 don’t even allow offline playing anymore

beeboobaa 3y ago

"You can play it except for the game modes people actually care about" Do you also think it's okay if a car that you bought prevents you from driving it, but oh don't worry, it's okay because you're still allowed to open the doors?

somehnguy 3y ago
Look, I get where you’re coming from. But ask people who actually play competitive online games and I can all but guarantee the general consensus is that anti-cheat is celebrated, not hated. Most people’s complaint with VAC would likely be that it is too lenient or too slow to ban. Some online games don’t have anti-cheat, and they become nothing but a cheating cesspool. Which consequently drives away actual players, and then you have a dead game except for essentially bots.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  That's the same argument as "but think of the children". Are you also fine with CSAM scanning tools being installed everywhere? It's okay to have a bunch of false positives that potentially ruin people just in case you can also catch a bad apple?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    It's not even remotely the same argument as the CSAM one. It's not a human right to play a certain video game.
    - beeboobaa 3y ago
      Neither is owning a phone? What is your point?
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        Because if you do own a phone then it becomes your property and the manufacturer shouldn't be allowed to invade the privacy of your data on your phone, but CS is free to play, it's not your property, it's Valve's property, and Valve is allowed to allow or ban whoever they want on it, you don't have a constitutional right to be allowed to paly CS without Valve's permission.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > Are you also fine with CSAM scanning tools being installed everywhere? No, and neither am I ok with anticheat software doing it. Afaik, most anticheats don’t do that. They just make sure that nothing is modifying/injecting into the game code. Which is imo reasonable, as the anticheat is just monitoring for any injections/modifications to the game that it came with.
- dbttdft 3y ago
  You argument sounds good to an executive, however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. EDIT: Why would you just downvote this, I already suspected you're one of those idiots who thinks everyone is cheating. Now I'm just convinced, and that's enough of this self masturbating forum for the month. Most cheat accusers in games are literally clueless slobs who just sign on to level up or some idiots in a closed circle of friends and think anyone who doesn't use their basic immediate method of naive play like walking into each other and clicking on each other is cheating.
  - basique 3y ago
    > however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. Have you played TF2 recently?
  - somehnguy 3y ago
    > however, it is simply not the case that games have rampant amount of hacking in general. Yes, many do. Especially ones with poor anti-cheat, which tend not to be very popular - because of the aforementioned cheating. Even non-overly competitive games are rampant with cheating, take a look at GTA5 online for an easy example. Without VAC games like the counter-strike series would be completely unplayable, I have over 1000 hours in the game and have ran into my fair share of extremely obvious cheaters over the years. I suspect you don't play competitive games very much if that's your view on the matter. > Why would you just downvote this, I already suspected you're one of those idiots who thinks everyone is cheating. 1. I can't downvote you, as you're a reply to my comment. Not that I would have anyway. 2. I've never cheated in an online game (my Steam account is 17 years old..), and I'm well aware that many players are not cheating and are simply better than me. 3. No need to resort to attacking me because you disagree.
  - cgriswald 3y ago
    HN software doesn’t allow downvoting posts that are responses to your own posts. The poster couldn’t have downvoted your post just like you can’t downvote this one.
squeaky-clean 3y ago
This can literally happen to your car if you get a DUI. https://www.floridasafetycouncil.org/ClassName/ignition-interlock-device#:~:text=Requirements%3A,of%20reinstatement%20for%20driver%20license https://www.floridasafetycouncil.org/ClassName/ignition-inte.... And yes, I think that's okay.
- beeboobaa 3y ago
  I'm not a murican but I assume that over there it's also legal to drive your car on your property without a license. How can they strip you of that right?
  - filoleg 3y ago
    I think the assumption in that rule is that it applies only to cars that you want to have registered and drive on public roads. Naturally, if you want to drive your car on your own private property, you won’t need a valid registration or license, so it won’t fall under that rule. So no, this law wouldn’t strip your rights to that.
  - jpc0 3y ago
    You are welcome to play CS on your own servers without being in compliance with the EULA, at this point in time you get to do that alone but that will change. Wait that's exactly what you say is wrong?
- josephcsible 3y ago
  There's a big difference between things I'm okay with as a punishment for being convicted of a felony, and things I'm okay with being imposed by megacorps with zero due process or accountability.
  - filoleg 3y ago
    > punishment for being convicted of a felony For certain traffic violations (including DUI in some states), your car gets impounded and your license taken away on the spot, way before you get your court hearing and get charged with anything.

dns_snek 3y ago

> You don’t buy the game but a license to play it. This is such a pedantic argument that misses the point and short circuits the entire discussion. I don't think there's a single reasonable person who mistakenly believes that they're buying the IP itself when they "buy" a game on Steam. Of course it's "just" a license to play it, what's being questioned are the terms of those licenses, both from moral and legal perspective. Most current EULAs boil down to: "We reserve the right to suspend your account and revoke access to the software you paid for for any reason, no refunds". To the best of my knowledge these EULAs haven't been tested in court so they shouldn't be taken at face value. There's a lot of room to balance the rights of customers who should be granted the same rights they would enjoy when buying a physical product, and the practical needs of platforms which need to ensure a fair environment for other players. Should cheaters be allowed to ruin the experience for other players? Obviously not. Should platforms be allowed to permanently ban suspected cheaters without a fair and transparent appeals process and without offering refunds? I don't think so.

aprdm 3y ago

Games like Diablo 4 don’t even allow offline playing anymore