7 ms·

Israel's demand for Gaza evacuation will lead to deaths, experts warn

16 points by botanical 3y ago

lr0 3y ago
Israel bombing Gaza and targeting civilians for the last couple of decades led to deaths. Israel didn't and doesn't care.
- darthrupert 3y ago
  They care maasively about their own safety over the safety of terrorist-sympathizers.
  - lr0 3y ago
    "terrorist-sympathizers"? Is that how Zionists identify Palestinians now?
    - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
      > "terrorist-sympathizers"? Is that how Zionists identify Palestinians now? This is not a Palestinian issue. If it were, Israel would be bombing the West Bank as well. Gazans voluntarily elected Hamas.[1] Hamas then refused to leave after getting involved in violent conflict with their political opponents, Fatah. Were Gazans ignorant of the ideology of the creature called Hamas when they handed them power? People should stop equating jihadis with civilians. Keep doing this and the suspicion about Muslim civilians having jihadi tendencies gains wider acceptance. This is Hamas vs Israel, not Palestine vs Israel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_of_the_Gaza_Strip
      - cherry_tree 3y ago
        You mean the hamas created and promoted by the Israeli government?[0] > Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric. [1] [0] https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c... [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html http://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http://online.wsj....
        ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
        > You mean the hamas created and promoted by the Israeli government? Yes. Every power employs divide-and-rule as a policy to control their opponents. When their opponents fight each other, a lot of their resources would be too tied up to fight Israel. The sooner the West realises that jihadis are not their allies and cannot be controlled, the better.
        cherry_tree 3y ago
        By the west here, you mean Israel?
        ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
        > By the west here, you mean Israel? And the US, which did very similar things when it funded Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    Are you really too dense to see how this same logic could be applied to justify acts that kill Israeli civilians, whose government has been killing Palestinians for decades, encroaching on their land, etc? Of course, your flaw is not logical, it is moral; you merely indulge a desire to take any excuse to dehumanize the Palestinians, the same way many on the other side will not admit the moral reality that attacks that target civilians are not a legitimate form of armed struggle, but merely satisfy their base desire for revenge. This latest flare-up of violence has really gotten me fed up with the partisans of this conflict in a way that hasn't happened before. Each side is acting like the latest reprisal against them came out of nowhere, and is trying to solicit everyone else's sympathy while blatantly denying the other side's moral worth and their own side's moral transgressions. You all deserve each other. Leave the rest of us out of it.
    - darthrupert 3y ago
      > Are you really too dense to If we're into idiotic questions, here's mine: Are you really a cat lover?
h2odragon 3y ago
Turning public infrastructure into rockets to fire into neighboring countries led to deaths, too. Perhaps warnings about that would be appropriate too? I dunno, I'm no expert, but it seems like the kind of thing that annoys others.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  Civilians are civilians. Atrocities committed by a subset of people on one side do not excuse atrocities committed back to civilians on the other side. This should be the basics, come on guys.
  - catlover76 3y ago
    You must be new to this conflict :p
  - pauldenton 3y ago
    And that's why we should end Affirmative Action
hackerlight 3y ago
No water for the walk, no oil for the drive, no electricity to even receive the communication reliably, and no infrastructure to receive 1 million people on the receiving end. It is not a good faith demand. It is setting up a narrative and excuse for what's to come.
- weatherlite 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - lr0 3y ago
    Yeah sure we should blockade 2 million people of oil and supplements in the biggest open-air prison in the word because they might use it to drive and kill people in Israel. I wounder why would they do so? Israel has been treating them very well, bombing them each couple of years.
    - weatherlite 3y ago
      OK. So now came the consequences, so be it then. Hopefully Hamas' human shield will stop listening to its orders and do the sensible thing of moving South.
    - darthrupert 3y ago
      Israel withdrew from Gaza and as a thank you for that, some palestinians founded Hamas. Hamas now rules over Gaza. It's reasonable to say that they are well supported by the people of Gaza.
  - hackerlight 3y ago
    It bears repeating the obvious fact that Hamas != 4 year old child inside Gaza. Israel is punishing that 4 year old child for the crimes of Hamas. Many people on both sides have no empathy for innocents of the other. It's natural in a war situation. In moments like this our human psychology is designed to pick a tribe, then put the other side in a homogeneous collective, then strip them of individuality, and apply hate and dehumanization to the collective based on the actions of its most sociopathic members. Please find a way to surpass this natural response. That 4 year old child didn't choose to be born in Gaza. It's stuck there. And now it's being deprived of water and food because Israel decided they were "human animals". If you care about Israel's future, you should want this to stop. There is a lot of genocidal thinking running in the brains of Israel's leader. See Isaac Herzog's comments and the Defense Minister's comments. This could escalate into a genocide quickly, the psychological conditions for that are ripe. And that would be a tragedy for Israel's future. It will lose all international support, and become a pariah. Its small economy will be bankrupted by the impossible challenge of occupying 2 million people who hate them. There is no future in the path that is being followed.
ratsmack 3y ago
I can somewhat empathize with the Jews, as this recent attack is just one of many. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-o... It's just a bad situation all the way around.
- xchip 3y ago
  [flagged]
sillywalk 3y ago
That's the whole point. The Israeli President Says There Are No Innocent Civilians In Gaza. All water, food, and medicine are cut off. This is an open call for genocide.
- xchip 3y ago
  [flagged]
botanical 3y ago
50% of the population in Palestine are children under the age of 15. In Gaza, it's 45%. One thing I've noticed is news media equating Hamas with the majority of Palestinians, they weren't even born when they came into power. Apartheid Israel and Palestine are not the same. Israel is the aggressor. Israel and the IDF is not more moral than Hamas. They're two sides of the same coin. Apartheid Israel has ethnic cleansed so many Palestinians that there are now 5.9 million stateless refugees in Jordan and Lebanon. That's half of Israel's population. Illegal Settlers living in Palestine can vote in Israel but not Palestinians. Apartheid South Africa did the same, they put the people in their own "country" and so couldn't vote. Israel doesn't want 1 state as that would mean millions more voting. And it doesn't want 2 states as that would mean giving up valuable land. The settlers kill and burn homes to get rid of people: [steal homes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8) and destroy olive tree groves. They pour concrete into Palestinian farmers' water wells. They even have a [segregated road system in the West Bank](https://s3.amazonaws.com/VP2/visuals/en/4db97391fe7cb246224980917f5bd997.png https://s3.amazonaws.com/VP2/visuals/en/4db97391fe7cb2462249...) [They control the water completely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in...). [They get 12 hours of electricity a day](https://www.ochaopt.org/page/gaza-strip-electricity-supply https://www.ochaopt.org/page/gaza-strip-electricity-supply) The Gaza [blockade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip) is a concentration camp of 2.2 million people where 44% are children. No access to water, electricity, aid, medicine. Even the sea is not accessible: https://www.ochaopt.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline100_standard/public/images/gaza2.png https://www.ochaopt.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline100...
- poisonarena 3y ago
  @dang, why is this allowed? look this is just spam and has nothing to do with the article, which also doesn't really belong here
  - botanical 3y ago
    Doesn't belong here? Given your biased Act.IL based commenting, I can see why you would flag this. Israel is an Apartheid State and its actions including forcing people to flee and indiscriminate bombing on civilians will lead to innocents dying. Looks like you would rather bury your head in the sand than have people reminded of Apartheid Israel's war crimes.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

16 points by botanical 3y ago

lr0 3y ago

Israel bombing Gaza and targeting civilians for the last couple of decades led to deaths. Israel didn't and doesn't care.

darthrupert 3y ago
They care maasively about their own safety over the safety of terrorist-sympathizers.
- lr0 3y ago
  "terrorist-sympathizers"? Is that how Zionists identify Palestinians now?
  - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
    > "terrorist-sympathizers"? Is that how Zionists identify Palestinians now? This is not a Palestinian issue. If it were, Israel would be bombing the West Bank as well. Gazans voluntarily elected Hamas.[1] Hamas then refused to leave after getting involved in violent conflict with their political opponents, Fatah. Were Gazans ignorant of the ideology of the creature called Hamas when they handed them power? People should stop equating jihadis with civilians. Keep doing this and the suspicion about Muslim civilians having jihadi tendencies gains wider acceptance. This is Hamas vs Israel, not Palestine vs Israel. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governance_of_the_Gaza_Strip
    - cherry_tree 3y ago
      You mean the hamas created and promoted by the Israeli government?[0] > Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric. [1] [0] https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-c... [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123275572295011847.html http://web.archive.org/web/20090926212507/http://online.wsj....
      - ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
        > You mean the hamas created and promoted by the Israeli government? Yes. Every power employs divide-and-rule as a policy to control their opponents. When their opponents fight each other, a lot of their resources would be too tied up to fight Israel. The sooner the West realises that jihadis are not their allies and cannot be controlled, the better.
        cherry_tree 3y ago
        By the west here, you mean Israel?
        ta_vf7xjd34cc 3y ago
        > By the west here, you mean Israel? And the US, which did very similar things when it funded Osama Bin Laden and the Mujahideen during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
- catlover76 3y ago
  Are you really too dense to see how this same logic could be applied to justify acts that kill Israeli civilians, whose government has been killing Palestinians for decades, encroaching on their land, etc? Of course, your flaw is not logical, it is moral; you merely indulge a desire to take any excuse to dehumanize the Palestinians, the same way many on the other side will not admit the moral reality that attacks that target civilians are not a legitimate form of armed struggle, but merely satisfy their base desire for revenge. This latest flare-up of violence has really gotten me fed up with the partisans of this conflict in a way that hasn't happened before. Each side is acting like the latest reprisal against them came out of nowhere, and is trying to solicit everyone else's sympathy while blatantly denying the other side's moral worth and their own side's moral transgressions. You all deserve each other. Leave the rest of us out of it.
  - darthrupert 3y ago
    > Are you really too dense to If we're into idiotic questions, here's mine: Are you really a cat lover?

h2odragon 3y ago

Turning public infrastructure into rockets to fire into neighboring countries led to deaths, too. Perhaps warnings about that would be appropriate too? I dunno, I'm no expert, but it seems like the kind of thing that annoys others.

hackerlight 3y ago
Civilians are civilians. Atrocities committed by a subset of people on one side do not excuse atrocities committed back to civilians on the other side. This should be the basics, come on guys.
- catlover76 3y ago
  You must be new to this conflict :p
- pauldenton 3y ago
  And that's why we should end Affirmative Action

hackerlight 3y ago

No water for the walk, no oil for the drive, no electricity to even receive the communication reliably, and no infrastructure to receive 1 million people on the receiving end. It is not a good faith demand. It is setting up a narrative and excuse for what's to come.

weatherlite 3y ago
[flagged]
- lr0 3y ago
  Yeah sure we should blockade 2 million people of oil and supplements in the biggest open-air prison in the word because they might use it to drive and kill people in Israel. I wounder why would they do so? Israel has been treating them very well, bombing them each couple of years.
  - weatherlite 3y ago
    OK. So now came the consequences, so be it then. Hopefully Hamas' human shield will stop listening to its orders and do the sensible thing of moving South.
  - darthrupert 3y ago
    Israel withdrew from Gaza and as a thank you for that, some palestinians founded Hamas. Hamas now rules over Gaza. It's reasonable to say that they are well supported by the people of Gaza.
- hackerlight 3y ago
  It bears repeating the obvious fact that Hamas != 4 year old child inside Gaza. Israel is punishing that 4 year old child for the crimes of Hamas. Many people on both sides have no empathy for innocents of the other. It's natural in a war situation. In moments like this our human psychology is designed to pick a tribe, then put the other side in a homogeneous collective, then strip them of individuality, and apply hate and dehumanization to the collective based on the actions of its most sociopathic members. Please find a way to surpass this natural response. That 4 year old child didn't choose to be born in Gaza. It's stuck there. And now it's being deprived of water and food because Israel decided they were "human animals". If you care about Israel's future, you should want this to stop. There is a lot of genocidal thinking running in the brains of Israel's leader. See Isaac Herzog's comments and the Defense Minister's comments. This could escalate into a genocide quickly, the psychological conditions for that are ripe. And that would be a tragedy for Israel's future. It will lose all international support, and become a pariah. Its small economy will be bankrupted by the impossible challenge of occupying 2 million people who hate them. There is no future in the path that is being followed.

ratsmack 3y ago

I can somewhat empathize with the Jews, as this recent attack is just one of many. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-of-terrorism-victims-in-israel https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/comprehensive-listing-o... It's just a bad situation all the way around.

xchip 3y ago
[flagged]

sillywalk 3y ago

That's the whole point. The Israeli President Says There Are No Innocent Civilians In Gaza. All water, food, and medicine are cut off. This is an open call for genocide.

xchip 3y ago
[flagged]

botanical 3y ago

50% of the population in Palestine are children under the age of 15. In Gaza, it's 45%. One thing I've noticed is news media equating Hamas with the majority of Palestinians, they weren't even born when they came into power. Apartheid Israel and Palestine are not the same. Israel is the aggressor. Israel and the IDF is not more moral than Hamas. They're two sides of the same coin. Apartheid Israel has ethnic cleansed so many Palestinians that there are now 5.9 million stateless refugees in Jordan and Lebanon. That's half of Israel's population. Illegal Settlers living in Palestine can vote in Israel but not Palestinians. Apartheid South Africa did the same, they put the people in their own "country" and so couldn't vote. Israel doesn't want 1 state as that would mean millions more voting. And it doesn't want 2 states as that would mean giving up valuable land. The settlers kill and burn homes to get rid of people: [steal homes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNqozQ8uaV8) and destroy olive tree groves. They pour concrete into Palestinian farmers' water wells. They even have a [segregated road system in the West Bank](https://s3.amazonaws.com/VP2/visuals/en/4db97391fe7cb246224980917f5bd997.png https://s3.amazonaws.com/VP2/visuals/en/4db97391fe7cb2462249...) [They control the water completely](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_the_State_of_Palestine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in...). [They get 12 hours of electricity a day](https://www.ochaopt.org/page/gaza-strip-electricity-supply https://www.ochaopt.org/page/gaza-strip-electricity-supply) The Gaza [blockade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip) is a concentration camp of 2.2 million people where 44% are children. No access to water, electricity, aid, medicine. Even the sea is not accessible: https://www.ochaopt.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline100_standard/public/images/gaza2.png https://www.ochaopt.org/sites/default/files/styles/inline100...

poisonarena 3y ago
@dang, why is this allowed? look this is just spam and has nothing to do with the article, which also doesn't really belong here
- botanical 3y ago
  Doesn't belong here? Given your biased Act.IL based commenting, I can see why you would flag this. Israel is an Apartheid State and its actions including forcing people to flee and indiscriminate bombing on civilians will lead to innocents dying. Looks like you would rather bury your head in the sand than have people reminded of Apartheid Israel's war crimes.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]