6 ms·

Do you have more info on this? What sort of neurological disorders can this help?

codeTired 3y ago
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34685573/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34685573/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Derrick-Lonsdale https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Derrick-Lonsdale Some links to get you started. B1 deficiency can be caused by things like alcoholism. He also thinks we don’t get enough of b1 in our diet and the current scale is not sufficient. Symptoms can vary and can involve different nervous systems. Things like tingling, insomnia, fatigue. A lot of people talk about getting paradoxical reaction or refeeeding syndrome, meaning once they start taking b1 they get massive flare up of symptoms.
- polishdude20 3y ago
  Can we get enough B1 by just diet alone? It seems a lot of foods either have in naturally or are fortified with it. Why the need for extra supplements?
  - tuatoru 3y ago
    There is an "undernutrition" hypothesis. Back in the day when we were all doing enough work (men, women, children) to need over twice our base-metabolic-rate number of calories per day, and eating whole foods, particularly red and white offal and leafy greens like collard and beet greens, steamed and roasted, we got enough of these mesonutrients and micronutrients. Twice your BMR is about 5000 Cal/day for an adult male. You need to do eight hours' physical work (shoveling, threshing, chopping, sawing, lifting, doing the laundry by hand, etc.) to burn off the extra. Now, the hypothesis says, we are deficient in many of these nutrients because we simply do not eat enough food, only 2500 Cal/day and a lot of that is from vegetable oils and low-nutrient animal fats. I have no investment in the hypothesis. Just reporting it. Edit: Vegemite and Marmite are high in vitamin B1. Possibly Bovril also. Spread it thinly on your toast and grill it.
    - andai 3y ago
      That is an interesting point. What we also know is that soils are being depleted of minerals, and farmers are selecting for crops with higher shelf life over higher nutrition. e.g. tomatoes have lost most flavor and nutrition over past few decades, some efforts are underway to hybridize them with older variants to get the best of both worlds.
      - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
        > e.g. tomatoes have lost most flavor and nutrition over past few decades can't speak for nutrition (nor do you provide support for that claim) but as to flavour, you clearly haven't been round long! Old fashioned tomatoes were shite I can testify (at least those available in the UK).
        galangalalgol 3y ago
        My grandmother said the ones from the 20s in the us tasted way better, but they didn't keep any time at all, which was fine because they grew or raised all their own food.
        serf 3y ago
        same story here. she also said that it was commonplace for people to have plants that originated from seeds from 'the old world' and brought over; maybe they were at that point closer to some genetic cousin.
        wise0wl 3y ago
        I grow heirloom tomatoes in the United States, and they are spectacular. The tomatoes available in the grocery store pale in comparison to anything grown in your own garden.
        briHass 3y ago
        This probably has more to do with the fact that supermarket tomatoes are picked before they fully ripen on the vine (often green). I also enjoy growing my own (Brandywine is a favorite), and letting it ripen on-vine to the point where it's probably hours away from falling off or starting to rot results in a much better tasting tomato than jumping the gun.
  - andai 3y ago
    What I heard was that some people have mutations that impair digestion (absorption requires some cellular machinery) or in other cases the utilization of B1. Apparently the mechanisms for absorbing it depend on having sufficient B1, and can get "stuck" in a deficient mode if you went through a period of deficiency, which can then be "unblocked" (kickstarted) with a megadose. Take this with a grain of salt, it's supposedly based in research, but I didn't check any papers about it yet.
  - heavyset_go 3y ago
    Usually they're fortified with a low enough amount of vitamins that it prevents pellagra, beriberi, etc. Not necessarily enough to address other problems. And if you aren't eating a lot of enriched flour you might not be consuming it in fortified foods at all.
zamalek 3y ago
One might be the MTHFR mutation. I forget the percentage, but a dizzying amount of westerners suffer from it - and it basically always gets misdiagnosed as depression. Supplementing with B12 helps, to a degree (you're providing more input to a broken machine), but you can supplement 5-MTHF (methylfolate) to get what the mutation inhibits your body from producing. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326181 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326181
- Aurornis 3y ago
  > One might be the MTHFR mutation. I forget the percentage, but a dizzying amount of westerners suffer from it - and it basically always gets misdiagnosed as depression. MTHFR has been hijacked by alternative medicine and exaggerated into an "explains everything" diagnosis. The first red flag is that MTHFR pushers use it to explain ever vague disorder under the sun: Depression, anxiety, stomach issues, being tired, being unhappy, inflammation, etc. If you name it, chances are someone on an alternative health board will spring up and suggest MTHFR as a narrative, or other variations on the theme ("methylation", etc.) The second red flag is when they moved to diagnosis anyone with any mutation, including heterozygous people, as "having it". This isn't backed by evidence and was purely an attempt to stretch the diagnosis to cover more people, Internet MTHFR and "methylation" advice is generally terrible. Don't buy into it. You can actually test for high homocysteine levels in the blood, but most MTHFR proponents skip that step and just assume they "have it" and that B12 and Methylfolate will solve all of their problems (they don't). Alternative medicine has stepped in to provide endless articles, podcasts, and paid advice about supplements to add to deal with MTHFR, which of course never work because MTFHR isn't the root cause of all of their symptoms. It's terrible.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34685573/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34685573/ https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Derrick-Lonsdale https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Derrick-Lonsdale Some links to get you started. B1 deficiency can be caused by things like alcoholism. He also thinks we don’t get enough of b1 in our diet and the current scale is not sufficient. Symptoms can vary and can involve different nervous systems. Things like tingling, insomnia, fatigue. A lot of people talk about getting paradoxical reaction or refeeeding syndrome, meaning once they start taking b1 they get massive flare up of symptoms.

polishdude20 3y ago
Can we get enough B1 by just diet alone? It seems a lot of foods either have in naturally or are fortified with it. Why the need for extra supplements?
- tuatoru 3y ago
  There is an "undernutrition" hypothesis. Back in the day when we were all doing enough work (men, women, children) to need over twice our base-metabolic-rate number of calories per day, and eating whole foods, particularly red and white offal and leafy greens like collard and beet greens, steamed and roasted, we got enough of these mesonutrients and micronutrients. Twice your BMR is about 5000 Cal/day for an adult male. You need to do eight hours' physical work (shoveling, threshing, chopping, sawing, lifting, doing the laundry by hand, etc.) to burn off the extra. Now, the hypothesis says, we are deficient in many of these nutrients because we simply do not eat enough food, only 2500 Cal/day and a lot of that is from vegetable oils and low-nutrient animal fats. I have no investment in the hypothesis. Just reporting it. Edit: Vegemite and Marmite are high in vitamin B1. Possibly Bovril also. Spread it thinly on your toast and grill it.
  - andai 3y ago
    That is an interesting point. What we also know is that soils are being depleted of minerals, and farmers are selecting for crops with higher shelf life over higher nutrition. e.g. tomatoes have lost most flavor and nutrition over past few decades, some efforts are underway to hybridize them with older variants to get the best of both worlds.
    - _a_a_a_ 3y ago
      > e.g. tomatoes have lost most flavor and nutrition over past few decades can't speak for nutrition (nor do you provide support for that claim) but as to flavour, you clearly haven't been round long! Old fashioned tomatoes were shite I can testify (at least those available in the UK).
      - galangalalgol 3y ago
        My grandmother said the ones from the 20s in the us tasted way better, but they didn't keep any time at all, which was fine because they grew or raised all their own food.
        serf 3y ago
        same story here. she also said that it was commonplace for people to have plants that originated from seeds from 'the old world' and brought over; maybe they were at that point closer to some genetic cousin.
      - wise0wl 3y ago
        I grow heirloom tomatoes in the United States, and they are spectacular. The tomatoes available in the grocery store pale in comparison to anything grown in your own garden.
        briHass 3y ago
        This probably has more to do with the fact that supermarket tomatoes are picked before they fully ripen on the vine (often green). I also enjoy growing my own (Brandywine is a favorite), and letting it ripen on-vine to the point where it's probably hours away from falling off or starting to rot results in a much better tasting tomato than jumping the gun.
- andai 3y ago
  What I heard was that some people have mutations that impair digestion (absorption requires some cellular machinery) or in other cases the utilization of B1. Apparently the mechanisms for absorbing it depend on having sufficient B1, and can get "stuck" in a deficient mode if you went through a period of deficiency, which can then be "unblocked" (kickstarted) with a megadose. Take this with a grain of salt, it's supposedly based in research, but I didn't check any papers about it yet.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  Usually they're fortified with a low enough amount of vitamins that it prevents pellagra, beriberi, etc. Not necessarily enough to address other problems. And if you aren't eating a lot of enriched flour you might not be consuming it in fortified foods at all.

zamalek 3y ago

One might be the MTHFR mutation. I forget the percentage, but a dizzying amount of westerners suffer from it - and it basically always gets misdiagnosed as depression. Supplementing with B12 helps, to a degree (you're providing more input to a broken machine), but you can supplement 5-MTHF (methylfolate) to get what the mutation inhibits your body from producing. https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326181 https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326181

Aurornis 3y ago
> One might be the MTHFR mutation. I forget the percentage, but a dizzying amount of westerners suffer from it - and it basically always gets misdiagnosed as depression. MTHFR has been hijacked by alternative medicine and exaggerated into an "explains everything" diagnosis. The first red flag is that MTHFR pushers use it to explain ever vague disorder under the sun: Depression, anxiety, stomach issues, being tired, being unhappy, inflammation, etc. If you name it, chances are someone on an alternative health board will spring up and suggest MTHFR as a narrative, or other variations on the theme ("methylation", etc.) The second red flag is when they moved to diagnosis anyone with any mutation, including heterozygous people, as "having it". This isn't backed by evidence and was purely an attempt to stretch the diagnosis to cover more people, Internet MTHFR and "methylation" advice is generally terrible. Don't buy into it. You can actually test for high homocysteine levels in the blood, but most MTHFR proponents skip that step and just assume they "have it" and that B12 and Methylfolate will solve all of their problems (they don't). Alternative medicine has stepped in to provide endless articles, podcasts, and paid advice about supplements to add to deal with MTHFR, which of course never work because MTFHR isn't the root cause of all of their symptoms. It's terrible.