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It's important to conduct experiments. I don't really have a problem with this. However, I also don't use Google Search. I use (and pay for) Kagi. So I'm not t

It's important to conduct experiments. I don't really have a problem with this. However, I also don't use Google Search. I use (and pay for) Kagi. So I'm not the intended audience for this.

permo-w 3y ago
I'd love to use Kagi, but honestly the price point is just too high. at $120 a year vs Google for free sadly I'm still going to choose Google. I would be willing to pay something in the region of $3-5 a month
- Mindless2112 3y ago
  I don't know if the price is too high, but the limits are too low. I can't deal with niggling thought that I might exceed the query limit -- every time I'd be thinking about whether I'm going to have to do another query because I made a typo or didn't pick the right search terms.
  - borg16 3y ago
    they recently made some changes to their pricing plans. $10 plan now includes unlimited searches, and they introduced a $5 tier too.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    if they're going to involve quantities in pricing, they should just charge per search
- bovermyer 3y ago
  That just means we have different ideas of price. I use the $5/month tier ($60 per year) of Kagi. Google doesn't cost you money... but there is a cost associated with using it, and I'm not willing to pay that cost. Plus, Google Search's quality has dramatically dropped in the last ten years.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    >we have different ideas of price doesn't everyone? for clarity, the $5 tier gives you 300 searches a month. with 300 I just know that some months I'd go well over, and some months I wouldn't come close. it's just the perfect number where there's uncertainty. 200 I'd always hit. 450-500 I'd probably never they should just tell marketing/sales to fuck off and charge per search. they'd gain me as a user >Google's search quality has dropped yeah it has, but its still better than any of its free competitors. around a year ago I tried a few of the free alternatives (DDG, Bing, Ecosia, Brave Search). what I found is that Google is still by far the best at understanding what you're searching for, where it struggles is prioritising results the problem is that every other search engine I tried has the exact same issue, but doesn't know what the fuck you're searching for half the time Brave is slightly different in that it is better for avoiding SEO dreck but it isn't fantastic at understanding you and it misses certain search operands
    - bovermyer 3y ago
      Maybe search patterns are relevant here. Without getting too specific, maybe 10% of my searches are programming-related, 25% current events, 25% sites or information that was current 20+ years ago, and 40% "other." Basically... Kagi is better at returning results I'm interested in. I use DDG for searching on my work laptop, because separation of concerns. Google, though? It doesn't work for me. If it works for you, great. Keep using it. As for Brave... well, I don't abide cryptocurrency in any form, so that's an ideological "nope" for me.
      - permo-w 3y ago
        my search patterns are probably not wildly dissimilar to that >As for Brave... well, I don't abide cryptocurrency in any form, so that's an ideological "nope" for me. I understand distrusting crypto, but this seems like really childish reasoning. I think it's fair to generally distrust strangers at first. does that mean that you should never interact with them? Brave has an optional crypto feature that I turned off once and never saw again. reddit also has in-built crypto features, do you refuse to use reddit too?
AlexandrB 3y ago
We already did this experiment in the 90s, it sucked. The only reason the outcome would be different this time is because there's no viable Google competitor that can swoop in and rescue users from this garbage.
- johannes1234321 3y ago
  I don't see it as a law of nature that "Google" has to have a plain search field forever. The world around it changes. Back in the 90s Google proved you could make "all" available better via search than the Yahoo catalog a d thus became the landing page. Nowadays the pure search bar is integrated into the browsers addressbar and Google as starting page has been replaced with Twitter/X, Reddit, news sites, .. and Google has to find something to become the start page again.
mongol 3y ago
I think it needs to be combined with some judgement what you want to become also. If you just go by numbers, you can end up with something that makes more money for some time, but that people stops caring for. And then it will go downhill. Google's uncluttered start page was part of their brand, their legacy and origin. If they sell that out, we know there is no soul left. Edit: When Google IPO'd, the offer was for $2,718,281,828 worth of stock. That was a signal about who was in charge and it colored the company's identity. This is the opposite.
Sharlin 3y ago
I love how "experiments" are now "how things used to be in the bad old days and people hated it and we won the search engine market partly because we didn't do that but uh maybe it's time to try again"
- phowat 3y ago
  Things have changed a LOT . The vast majority of Google users never even see the home page since it's integrated into the address bar of all mainstream browsers. So I guess they might as well use it for something other than pure search.

It's important to conduct experiments. I don't really have a problem with this. However, I also don't use Google Search. I use (and pay for) Kagi. So I'm not the intended audience for this.

permo-w 3y ago

I'd love to use Kagi, but honestly the price point is just too high. at $120 a year vs Google for free sadly I'm still going to choose Google. I would be willing to pay something in the region of $3-5 a month

Mindless2112 3y ago
I don't know if the price is too high, but the limits are too low. I can't deal with niggling thought that I might exceed the query limit -- every time I'd be thinking about whether I'm going to have to do another query because I made a typo or didn't pick the right search terms.
- borg16 3y ago
  they recently made some changes to their pricing plans. $10 plan now includes unlimited searches, and they introduced a $5 tier too.
- permo-w 3y ago
  if they're going to involve quantities in pricing, they should just charge per search
bovermyer 3y ago
That just means we have different ideas of price. I use the $5/month tier ($60 per year) of Kagi. Google doesn't cost you money... but there is a cost associated with using it, and I'm not willing to pay that cost. Plus, Google Search's quality has dramatically dropped in the last ten years.
- permo-w 3y ago
  >we have different ideas of price doesn't everyone? for clarity, the $5 tier gives you 300 searches a month. with 300 I just know that some months I'd go well over, and some months I wouldn't come close. it's just the perfect number where there's uncertainty. 200 I'd always hit. 450-500 I'd probably never they should just tell marketing/sales to fuck off and charge per search. they'd gain me as a user >Google's search quality has dropped yeah it has, but its still better than any of its free competitors. around a year ago I tried a few of the free alternatives (DDG, Bing, Ecosia, Brave Search). what I found is that Google is still by far the best at understanding what you're searching for, where it struggles is prioritising results the problem is that every other search engine I tried has the exact same issue, but doesn't know what the fuck you're searching for half the time Brave is slightly different in that it is better for avoiding SEO dreck but it isn't fantastic at understanding you and it misses certain search operands
  - bovermyer 3y ago
    Maybe search patterns are relevant here. Without getting too specific, maybe 10% of my searches are programming-related, 25% current events, 25% sites or information that was current 20+ years ago, and 40% "other." Basically... Kagi is better at returning results I'm interested in. I use DDG for searching on my work laptop, because separation of concerns. Google, though? It doesn't work for me. If it works for you, great. Keep using it. As for Brave... well, I don't abide cryptocurrency in any form, so that's an ideological "nope" for me.
    - permo-w 3y ago
      my search patterns are probably not wildly dissimilar to that >As for Brave... well, I don't abide cryptocurrency in any form, so that's an ideological "nope" for me. I understand distrusting crypto, but this seems like really childish reasoning. I think it's fair to generally distrust strangers at first. does that mean that you should never interact with them? Brave has an optional crypto feature that I turned off once and never saw again. reddit also has in-built crypto features, do you refuse to use reddit too?

AlexandrB 3y ago

We already did this experiment in the 90s, it sucked. The only reason the outcome would be different this time is because there's no viable Google competitor that can swoop in and rescue users from this garbage.

johannes1234321 3y ago
I don't see it as a law of nature that "Google" has to have a plain search field forever. The world around it changes. Back in the 90s Google proved you could make "all" available better via search than the Yahoo catalog a d thus became the landing page. Nowadays the pure search bar is integrated into the browsers addressbar and Google as starting page has been replaced with Twitter/X, Reddit, news sites, .. and Google has to find something to become the start page again.

mongol 3y ago

I think it needs to be combined with some judgement what you want to become also. If you just go by numbers, you can end up with something that makes more money for some time, but that people stops caring for. And then it will go downhill. Google's uncluttered start page was part of their brand, their legacy and origin. If they sell that out, we know there is no soul left. Edit: When Google IPO'd, the offer was for $2,718,281,828 worth of stock. That was a signal about who was in charge and it colored the company's identity. This is the opposite.

Sharlin 3y ago

I love how "experiments" are now "how things used to be in the bad old days and people hated it and we won the search engine market partly because we didn't do that but uh maybe it's time to try again"

phowat 3y ago
Things have changed a LOT . The vast majority of Google users never even see the home page since it's integrated into the address bar of all mainstream browsers. So I guess they might as well use it for something other than pure search.