4 ms·

Not sure why you are specifically calling out EVs. I think all new cars (gas or electric) have internet connectivity and send all sorts of data home.

piperswe 3y ago
Yep, I can't think of any automakers that have different connectivity in their EVs than their ICEs.
mixmastamyk 3y ago
It was pioneered there. Not been able to buy a modern EV without it. Ostensibly for range anxiety early on, kept for the sweet revenue. The GM EV1 and Tesla roadster? were probably the last without it.
- sandworm101 3y ago
  >> Ostensibly for range anxiety ... The most range-anxious person I ever saw was a tesla driver at a rest stop. A traffic accident had put us on a 150km detour though a different mountain valley, one without cellphone connectivity. He was at the first rest stop trying to figure out whether to push on or attempt to turn around and go home. He didn't have the range to go back, and couldn't figure out of there were any chargers 115km forwards at the next town. No cellphone coverage had turned him into a seething ball of indecision.
  - CraigJPerry 3y ago
    Cars have been running out of gas for 100 years, give or take. To refill an electric car you can usually just pull it with a tow rope for a few miles to recharge. Doesn’t really seem like a seismic shift in paradigm to be honest. Certainly not to justify a different level of range anxiety than a gas car running a bit low.
    - cuu508 3y ago
      Hos much usable range do you get after pulling for a few miles?
      - sandworm101 3y ago
        Likely something less than a few miles.
      - pseudosavant 3y ago
        It depends on the regen capabilities of the car. My Bolt can regen at 70kw in Low (the one pedal driving mode). With a 60 kw battery that is about 2% of the battery per minute. Or 1.2kw/minute and I get 3.7 mi/km, so about 4.3 miles of range a minute.
        cuu508 3y ago
        Have you by any chance tested regen by towing? I'm assuming regen is designed to be used for short periods when slowing down, I wonder how long it can be used continuously. Also, what would be the requirements for the towing vehicle? 70 kW of extra load is no joke, and car engines are generally not designed to handle heavy loads for extended periods of time.
        pseudosavant 3y ago
        The EV can handle it for a long time. I've never towed a vehicle like this, but I've gone down very steep mountains with nothing but heavy regen for over 45 minutes. Some vehicles could maybe handle towing an extra 70kw (~100hp). You could always use a lesser regen level more suitable to the towing vehicle too.
    - bluGill 3y ago
      Sure, but with a gas car the typical response is to hitch a ride to the nearest gas station (which along any highway won't be that far unlike EV chargers), buy a small gas can, fill it up, and hitch a ride back. Sometimes gas stations even have a gas can you can borrow for free so your only extra cost is the time. Once in a while a nice person will even have extra gas in their truck they will just give you for free. A tow truck by contrast will cost you $100 to get you to a gas station. Tow trucks are great services if the problem is more than out of gas (and some of them will bring gas for less, but you still pay for the service), but there are not what most people use when out of gas.
- sircastor 3y ago
  It wasn't pioneered in EVs, it was coincidental timing. These features were always coming to all cars - but features start off in luxury vehicles, and EVs were priced in the luxury category. Go back and look at mid-to-late-2000s luxury vehicles and you'll find the features being developed there, even before the modern electric vehicles started showing up.
  - mixmastamyk 3y ago
    The word pioneer doesn’t imply a solo actor… why I chose the word over invent.
sandworm101 3y ago
But there exists a large group of people, especially here on HN, that want to execute a series of transport/car revolutions all in short order. There is the connected car, the electrification of cars, the auto-drive car, and the "end to individual car ownership". Many players in the industry want to push all those things to happen at once. Tesla actively pushes 3/4 of them. So it is natural for people to draw parallels, to see one revolution as integral to another.
- Pxtl 3y ago
  > "end to individual car ownership" Name one. Name one notable person here on HN who wants to "end individual car ownership". Not to offer an alternative for people who don't need to own a car all day every day, but to end it.
  - vGPU 3y ago
    I don’t know who notable people here are, and don’t really care. The fact is that the opinion that cars should be banned/removed/made second class citizens is an extremely common and popular sentiment on HN.
unethical_ban 3y ago
You are correct, and all carbuyers should be aware. I know I will work with the service department of any new vehicle I buy to determine how to disable communication, if not faraday/RIP out the modem of any car I buy. That said, I think a lot of non tech savvy people associate the two. My dad dislikes EVs for many reasons Fox News tells him to, but one of them is "self driving cars are never going to be safe or practical". He doesn't get that EVs can exist separate from Tesla self driving shenanigans, or that ICE vehicles are trying to do the same thing.
- madphilosopher 3y ago
  I'm really hoping a wiki will arise that will show how to disable network (radio) communications on all modern car models.

piperswe 3y ago

Yep, I can't think of any automakers that have different connectivity in their EVs than their ICEs.

mixmastamyk 3y ago

It was pioneered there. Not been able to buy a modern EV without it. Ostensibly for range anxiety early on, kept for the sweet revenue. The GM EV1 and Tesla roadster? were probably the last without it.

sandworm101 3y ago
>> Ostensibly for range anxiety ... The most range-anxious person I ever saw was a tesla driver at a rest stop. A traffic accident had put us on a 150km detour though a different mountain valley, one without cellphone connectivity. He was at the first rest stop trying to figure out whether to push on or attempt to turn around and go home. He didn't have the range to go back, and couldn't figure out of there were any chargers 115km forwards at the next town. No cellphone coverage had turned him into a seething ball of indecision.
- CraigJPerry 3y ago
  Cars have been running out of gas for 100 years, give or take. To refill an electric car you can usually just pull it with a tow rope for a few miles to recharge. Doesn’t really seem like a seismic shift in paradigm to be honest. Certainly not to justify a different level of range anxiety than a gas car running a bit low.
  - cuu508 3y ago
    Hos much usable range do you get after pulling for a few miles?
    - sandworm101 3y ago
      Likely something less than a few miles.
    - pseudosavant 3y ago
      It depends on the regen capabilities of the car. My Bolt can regen at 70kw in Low (the one pedal driving mode). With a 60 kw battery that is about 2% of the battery per minute. Or 1.2kw/minute and I get 3.7 mi/km, so about 4.3 miles of range a minute.
      - cuu508 3y ago
        Have you by any chance tested regen by towing? I'm assuming regen is designed to be used for short periods when slowing down, I wonder how long it can be used continuously. Also, what would be the requirements for the towing vehicle? 70 kW of extra load is no joke, and car engines are generally not designed to handle heavy loads for extended periods of time.
        pseudosavant 3y ago
        The EV can handle it for a long time. I've never towed a vehicle like this, but I've gone down very steep mountains with nothing but heavy regen for over 45 minutes. Some vehicles could maybe handle towing an extra 70kw (~100hp). You could always use a lesser regen level more suitable to the towing vehicle too.
  - bluGill 3y ago
    Sure, but with a gas car the typical response is to hitch a ride to the nearest gas station (which along any highway won't be that far unlike EV chargers), buy a small gas can, fill it up, and hitch a ride back. Sometimes gas stations even have a gas can you can borrow for free so your only extra cost is the time. Once in a while a nice person will even have extra gas in their truck they will just give you for free. A tow truck by contrast will cost you $100 to get you to a gas station. Tow trucks are great services if the problem is more than out of gas (and some of them will bring gas for less, but you still pay for the service), but there are not what most people use when out of gas.
sircastor 3y ago
It wasn't pioneered in EVs, it was coincidental timing. These features were always coming to all cars - but features start off in luxury vehicles, and EVs were priced in the luxury category. Go back and look at mid-to-late-2000s luxury vehicles and you'll find the features being developed there, even before the modern electric vehicles started showing up.
- mixmastamyk 3y ago
  The word pioneer doesn’t imply a solo actor… why I chose the word over invent.

sandworm101 3y ago

But there exists a large group of people, especially here on HN, that want to execute a series of transport/car revolutions all in short order. There is the connected car, the electrification of cars, the auto-drive car, and the "end to individual car ownership". Many players in the industry want to push all those things to happen at once. Tesla actively pushes 3/4 of them. So it is natural for people to draw parallels, to see one revolution as integral to another.

Pxtl 3y ago
> "end to individual car ownership" Name one. Name one notable person here on HN who wants to "end individual car ownership". Not to offer an alternative for people who don't need to own a car all day every day, but to end it.
- vGPU 3y ago
  I don’t know who notable people here are, and don’t really care. The fact is that the opinion that cars should be banned/removed/made second class citizens is an extremely common and popular sentiment on HN.

unethical_ban 3y ago

You are correct, and all carbuyers should be aware. I know I will work with the service department of any new vehicle I buy to determine how to disable communication, if not faraday/RIP out the modem of any car I buy. That said, I think a lot of non tech savvy people associate the two. My dad dislikes EVs for many reasons Fox News tells him to, but one of them is "self driving cars are never going to be safe or practical". He doesn't get that EVs can exist separate from Tesla self driving shenanigans, or that ICE vehicles are trying to do the same thing.

madphilosopher 3y ago
I'm really hoping a wiki will arise that will show how to disable network (radio) communications on all modern car models.