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1. The graph makes it look like COVID lockdowns are driving the current conversation. That wasn't caused by monopolies. 2. Given the experiences in the health

by roenxi 3y ago

1. The graph makes it look like COVID lockdowns are driving the current conversation. That wasn't caused by monopolies. 2. Given the experiences in the health and energy sectors, the first question should be whether it is legal to compete. Those sectors might be the worst for competition being nipped in the bud by regulation - but it seems unlikely that they are alone. It'll be happening everywhere. This should be the easiest era in history to start a new business and eat in to those fat margins. If people aren't, that does say something about the state of market regulation.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
thisgoesnowhere 3y ago
What do you mean by market regulation?
- zbrozek 3y ago
  Presumably the rules that govern a business and act like a moat around existing players, reducing new entrants and thus competition.
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  Well, roenxi specifically mentioned health and energy. Healthcare isn't a free market. It's an FDA regulated market. Say I've got a killer (um, bad choice of adjectives) idea for a new way to do heart stents. I could create a startup and develop them. But then I've got to get them FDA approved before anyone can actually use them. That's going to cost a decade, and one or more tens of millions of dollars. So startups aren't going to come save us from high healthcare costs, even if there's inefficiencies or price-gouging in the healthcare market. Energy is kind of the same way. You have an idea for a more efficient way to do a refinery? You can't just go build one, not without EPA approval (plus local zoning regulations). Now, in both cases, the regulations are there for good reason. I don't want my doctor implanting Billy Bob's Discount Shunt Of The Week in my coronary artery, thanks. But healthcare is more costly than it would be in a freer market. The idea is that fewer people die with the regulations. But the regulations also mean that some people die because they can't afford the healthcare. Is it a net win? I don't know.
  - pif 3y ago
    > the regulations also mean that some people die because they can't afford the healthcare. Healthcare costs have no relation with how many people can get coverage. Civilised societies provide healthcare to all residents; the related costs impact taxes, but not number of deaths. People dying for not being able to afford the care is only a problem in barbaric countries.
    - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
      > Healthcare costs have no relation with how many people can get coverage. Sure they do - even in "civilised societies". Let's say your government is willing to spend 10% of its budget on healthcare. Well, if healthcare costs twice as much, then the citizens get half as much healthcare. And, in practice, isn't that how it works out? Basic care is available to everyone. If you need the heart surgery or the expensive cancer treatment, well, there's a long wait list, because they aren't paying for very many of those each month, so get in line. So, yes. The regulations also mean that some people die because society can't afford the healthcare. (Or at least doesn't afford the healthcare.)
enragedcacti 3y ago
> 1. The graph makes it look like COVID lockdowns are driving the current conversation. That wasn't caused by monopolies. I don't think anyone is claiming that covid policies and covid itself had no effect, the argument is that the events of 2020 created the circumstances that businesses exploited to drive profits and inflation. > This should be the easiest era in history to start a new business and eat in to those fat margins. If people aren't, that does say something about the state of market regulation. regulations are far from the only barrier to entry

by roenxi 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

thisgoesnowhere 3y ago

What do you mean by market regulation?

zbrozek 3y ago
Presumably the rules that govern a business and act like a moat around existing players, reducing new entrants and thus competition.
AnimalMuppet 3y ago
Well, roenxi specifically mentioned health and energy. Healthcare isn't a free market. It's an FDA regulated market. Say I've got a killer (um, bad choice of adjectives) idea for a new way to do heart stents. I could create a startup and develop them. But then I've got to get them FDA approved before anyone can actually use them. That's going to cost a decade, and one or more tens of millions of dollars. So startups aren't going to come save us from high healthcare costs, even if there's inefficiencies or price-gouging in the healthcare market. Energy is kind of the same way. You have an idea for a more efficient way to do a refinery? You can't just go build one, not without EPA approval (plus local zoning regulations). Now, in both cases, the regulations are there for good reason. I don't want my doctor implanting Billy Bob's Discount Shunt Of The Week in my coronary artery, thanks. But healthcare is more costly than it would be in a freer market. The idea is that fewer people die with the regulations. But the regulations also mean that some people die because they can't afford the healthcare. Is it a net win? I don't know.
- pif 3y ago
  > the regulations also mean that some people die because they can't afford the healthcare. Healthcare costs have no relation with how many people can get coverage. Civilised societies provide healthcare to all residents; the related costs impact taxes, but not number of deaths. People dying for not being able to afford the care is only a problem in barbaric countries.
  - AnimalMuppet 3y ago
    > Healthcare costs have no relation with how many people can get coverage. Sure they do - even in "civilised societies". Let's say your government is willing to spend 10% of its budget on healthcare. Well, if healthcare costs twice as much, then the citizens get half as much healthcare. And, in practice, isn't that how it works out? Basic care is available to everyone. If you need the heart surgery or the expensive cancer treatment, well, there's a long wait list, because they aren't paying for very many of those each month, so get in line. So, yes. The regulations also mean that some people die because society can't afford the healthcare. (Or at least doesn't afford the healthcare.)

enragedcacti 3y ago

> 1. The graph makes it look like COVID lockdowns are driving the current conversation. That wasn't caused by monopolies. I don't think anyone is claiming that covid policies and covid itself had no effect, the argument is that the events of 2020 created the circumstances that businesses exploited to drive profits and inflation. > This should be the easiest era in history to start a new business and eat in to those fat margins. If people aren't, that does say something about the state of market regulation. regulations are far from the only barrier to entry