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Original claim: > You literally cannot change EU law via elections in any way in Europe Your claim: you can vote for someone who will vote for someone who wil

by nvm0n2 3y ago

Original claim: > You literally cannot change EU law via elections in any way in Europe Your claim: you can vote for someone who will vote for someone who will suggest someone who can be rejected and who will then swear to ignore the wishes of the original voters anyway, and this is fine. No it isn't. The EU is a dictatorship that like all dictatorships plays pretend and has meaningless votes for people who don't matter. Your attempts to obfuscate this core truth are impressively high effort, but mixing and matching different aspects of different democracies from around the world whilst ignoring all the ways the EU is different doesn't actually yield a winning argument. > it is not per se undemocratic as long as the larger block is democratic In fact placing a same-sized parliament under the control of a much larger number of people would be less democratic, as each individual has less influence over the results. But the EU isn't democratic anyway, so this point is moot. > it's time we finally unify to the superpower we're meant to be. And there it is, revealed in the final sentence. We didn't have to scratch deep to find it this time: the power hungry authoritarianism that motivates EU ideology. And you're in Austria no less. Every other attempt to unify Europe under a single government has led to dystopian disaster, but this time it'll be totally different!

malermeister 3y ago
> No it isn't. The EU is a dictatorship that like all dictatorships plays pretend and has meaningless votes for people who don't matter. Your attempts to obfuscate this core truth are impressively high effort, but mixing and matching different aspects of different democracies from around the world whilst ignoring all the ways the EU is different doesn't actually yield a winning argument. Note how you haven't addressed any of my arguments. > And there it is, revealed in the final sentence. We didn't have to scratch deep to find it this time: the power hungry authoritarianism that motivates EU ideology. And you're in Austria no less. Every other attempt to unify Europe under a single government has led to dystopian disaster, but this time it'll be totally different! What exactly is authoritarian? You can't just use bad words against arguments you don't like, you have to actually back up your points. All you have done is make wild claims, which I've refuted, as a result of which you've then called me an authoritarian and the EU a dictatorship without any substance to back it up.
- nvm0n2 3y ago
  You haven't made any arguments to address, just taken each dictatorial aspect, agreed it's real and then proclaimed it to actually be democracy. You can't vote for anyone who has actual power: not a problem, that's democracy. The people you try to indirectly appoint to the Commission are rejected on ideological grounds: not a problem, that's democracy. The people who end up with power literally take an oath to ignore your vote: not a problem, that's democracy. As for what is authoritarian? This whole thread is literally about the EU establishing a China style censorship regime. You aren't engaging with the substance of the objections, just playing silly word games in an attempt to deny what you're supporting. You want a unitary superpower because it makes you feel strong, you feel you're "meant" to have power and feel the EU is staffed by people just like yourself. You will continue to throw dust around to try and obscure what this system really is until the day it turns on you, by which time, my friend, it will be far too late.
  - malermeister 3y ago
    > You haven't made any arguments to address, just taken each dictatorial aspect, agreed it's real and then proclaimed it to actually be democracy. I have shown that these so-called dictatorial aspects are also features of other democracies. Are the US and the UK dictatorships as well, then?

by nvm0n2 3y ago

malermeister 3y ago

> No it isn't. The EU is a dictatorship that like all dictatorships plays pretend and has meaningless votes for people who don't matter. Your attempts to obfuscate this core truth are impressively high effort, but mixing and matching different aspects of different democracies from around the world whilst ignoring all the ways the EU is different doesn't actually yield a winning argument. Note how you haven't addressed any of my arguments. > And there it is, revealed in the final sentence. We didn't have to scratch deep to find it this time: the power hungry authoritarianism that motivates EU ideology. And you're in Austria no less. Every other attempt to unify Europe under a single government has led to dystopian disaster, but this time it'll be totally different! What exactly is authoritarian? You can't just use bad words against arguments you don't like, you have to actually back up your points. All you have done is make wild claims, which I've refuted, as a result of which you've then called me an authoritarian and the EU a dictatorship without any substance to back it up.

nvm0n2 3y ago
You haven't made any arguments to address, just taken each dictatorial aspect, agreed it's real and then proclaimed it to actually be democracy. You can't vote for anyone who has actual power: not a problem, that's democracy. The people you try to indirectly appoint to the Commission are rejected on ideological grounds: not a problem, that's democracy. The people who end up with power literally take an oath to ignore your vote: not a problem, that's democracy. As for what is authoritarian? This whole thread is literally about the EU establishing a China style censorship regime. You aren't engaging with the substance of the objections, just playing silly word games in an attempt to deny what you're supporting. You want a unitary superpower because it makes you feel strong, you feel you're "meant" to have power and feel the EU is staffed by people just like yourself. You will continue to throw dust around to try and obscure what this system really is until the day it turns on you, by which time, my friend, it will be far too late.
- malermeister 3y ago
  > You haven't made any arguments to address, just taken each dictatorial aspect, agreed it's real and then proclaimed it to actually be democracy. I have shown that these so-called dictatorial aspects are also features of other democracies. Are the US and the UK dictatorships as well, then?