7 ms·

It is clearly the best of both worlds.

by skore 15y ago

pavanky 15y ago
Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? Personally I'd rather buy a laptop and a tablet (something like the transformer) rather than get something that costs twice as much or offers lower return on hardware for the same price. Disclaimer: I am from a parallel programming background, so I am biased towards performance rather than form factor or battery life.
- masklinn 15y ago
  > Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? No? I mean is a Panasonic Toughbook C1 "overpriced"? It'll always depend on what you value and what your qualitative and quantitative metrics are.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - masklinn 15y ago
      > I mentioned my criteria Not really. > Return of hardware on the money investted. That's not a criteria, it's not even fuzzy it's empty. > To me people using macs are using them because one of the following: Ah, so you were not actually asking a question and did not have any interest in answers. Noted.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - kbutler 15y ago
        I recently purchased a <$1000 HP laptop because I couldn't bring myself to pay the Apple tax (basically double) for similar hardware. I'm currently having a hard time with the feel of the machine. The worst part is the trackpad - multi-touch scrolling is flaky, and I either get unintended clicks or enable a "palm check" that turns off the trackpad when typing. I'm deciding laptop ergonomics are really important (but $1000 important? cringe)
        amishforkfight 15y ago
        The three laptops I had before my MBP were all from different companies, ASUS, Gateway, Dell, and I hated the hardware on all of them. There was always something going on. The case didn't close right, the battery life sucked, the trackpads were awful and so itty bitty, the wifi cut in and out, the power cord needed to be jiggled just right to charge, or wouldn't charge at all unless held in place with tape just so... between the three laptops and six years there was always SOMETHING going wrong. So you could say that I originally purchased my MBP because of the hardware. I expected to install Windows on it (didn't, but that's a different story). I swallowed the extra cost when I did the math. I use my laptop about 3000 hours a year. Day in, day out, I'm on it in some way. They usually last me 2 years or so before I get the itch to upgrade or they fail. I did the math and found that the ~$1000 laptops I bought cost me $0.003 per minute over the course of those two years. A $1300 MBP cost me $0.004 per minute. I decided that I would rather pay $0.001 more per minute to enjoy the hardware I used. I'd rather be in a rage over the fact that my code isn't doing what I want than if my battery isn't taking a charge again. An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. I probably won't upgrade until I see how Apple's Retina display transitions to their laptop line. The upgrade then will probably be out of lust than necessity. We're talking about the primary tool of our trade. I make my living using this device. If I was repairing cars again I'd be buying Snap-On. Yeah, it's expensive. But goddamnit if I break a wrench they replace it for free. The guy drives to my house and gives me demos. I don't need my tools giving me grief, I need to get work done with them. Just my thoughts on the 'Apple tax'.
        masklinn 15y ago
        > An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. MBPs are not that tough though, I've a colleague who really shouldn't be left alone with machines, his MBA (which he brings everywhere and takes little care of) did suffer quite a bit, it's horribly dirty and has quite a few dents. A Dell half the price would probably be dead already, though. But he'd probably benefit from a Toughbook C1, that's a step up in ruggedness, MB's aluminum is nice but not that solid.
- archangel_one 15y ago
  The last one I bought (a 13" about 18 months ago) wasn't. Yes, you could buy a Windows laptop from Dell or HP or someone for half the price, but it would have less than half the battery life, it would be larger (albeit probably not heavier; Macbooks are the densest laptops I've found) and it would have a plastic shell instead of aluminium which feels worse when new and won't age well. It would also come laden with crapware, which isn't an issue for me since I've put Linux on it anyway, but it is a big deal for most people - the majority of machines I see running badly these days are doing it because of software, not hardware. I guess if you're coming from the perspective of maximum CPU performance per $ being the key metric, then they probably aren't a great deal, but for most people that's not really the most important thing any more.
  - pavanky 15y ago
    Dell 15z: $1200 http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn Macbook Pro: $2100 (Battery life 7hr) http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO-INDEX&cp=BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... 15z review. Battery life: 7.5hr. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-flattering/5 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-fl... Just saying. Used the 15z for comparison, because I think it is closest in terms of form factor. If you are going to use linux anyway, why waste the extra $900 to buy an OS you dont use.
    - metatronscube 15y ago
      I like to consider the total cost of ownership when purchasing a piece of hardware, which is hard to quantify and sometimes a touchy and subjective topic but I have found Apple Computers/Laptops to substantially outlast anything from Dell or HP. I would lay down 2K for an Apple and never quibble (that much) but I would never do that for any other brand (I have just had lots of very bad and costly experiences with them....Dell in particular)
    - archangel_one 15y ago
      Fair shout. Like I said, I bought my last laptop 18 months ago and back then I didn't think Dell had any good options; admittedly their website is a maze of twisty laptop models and brands and price points which I may well have missed something good in. Amusingly in this case I can't see any picture of their laptop and when I leave the tab via ctrl+shift+tab it pops something up saying '9'. Very professional. I would also observe that I'm wasting money on an operating system I don't really want on the Dell as well, although it would likely be somewhat more useful to me than OSX. I guess that it does look like a really nice machine. I think it says something though about Dell's image as a company that I find it hard to believe they've genuinely created something that good at this point (and yes, I have owned Dell machines before; that's part of why). I guess I should probably cut them some slack...
- Gravityloss 15y ago
  I don't think you can get anything with an equal display at the same price point as a macbook pro.
  - pavanky 15y ago
    What metric are you using when you say equal display ? I have two laptops that display at 1080p (no, not an external monitor, just the laptop displays themselves).
    - Gravityloss 15y ago
      Resolution, colors.
  - pavanky 15y ago
    Well I did mention two laptops 1080p (1920 x 1080) with a color depth of 24. Both bought for around $1200, with substantially better hardware than what apple offers.
riledhel 15y ago
But what about the battery life under linux? Have you experienced any kind of problems with that?
- herrwolfe 15y ago
  I'd be interested to know this as well - are you experiencing decent batt life dual booting into Linux on your macbooks/airs?

It is clearly the best of both worlds.

by skore 15y ago

It is clearly the best of both worlds.

Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? Personally I'd rather buy a laptop and a tablet (something like the transformer) rather than get something that costs twice as much or offers lower return on hardware for the same price. Disclaimer: I am from a parallel programming background, so I am biased towards performance rather than form factor or battery life.

masklinn 15y ago
> Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? No? I mean is a Panasonic Toughbook C1 "overpriced"? It'll always depend on what you value and what your qualitative and quantitative metrics are.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > I mentioned my criteria Not really. > Return of hardware on the money investted. That's not a criteria, it's not even fuzzy it's empty. > To me people using macs are using them because one of the following: Ah, so you were not actually asking a question and did not have any interest in answers. Noted.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - kbutler 15y ago
      I recently purchased a <$1000 HP laptop because I couldn't bring myself to pay the Apple tax (basically double) for similar hardware. I'm currently having a hard time with the feel of the machine. The worst part is the trackpad - multi-touch scrolling is flaky, and I either get unintended clicks or enable a "palm check" that turns off the trackpad when typing. I'm deciding laptop ergonomics are really important (but $1000 important? cringe)
      - amishforkfight 15y ago
        The three laptops I had before my MBP were all from different companies, ASUS, Gateway, Dell, and I hated the hardware on all of them. There was always something going on. The case didn't close right, the battery life sucked, the trackpads were awful and so itty bitty, the wifi cut in and out, the power cord needed to be jiggled just right to charge, or wouldn't charge at all unless held in place with tape just so... between the three laptops and six years there was always SOMETHING going wrong. So you could say that I originally purchased my MBP because of the hardware. I expected to install Windows on it (didn't, but that's a different story). I swallowed the extra cost when I did the math. I use my laptop about 3000 hours a year. Day in, day out, I'm on it in some way. They usually last me 2 years or so before I get the itch to upgrade or they fail. I did the math and found that the ~$1000 laptops I bought cost me $0.003 per minute over the course of those two years. A $1300 MBP cost me $0.004 per minute. I decided that I would rather pay $0.001 more per minute to enjoy the hardware I used. I'd rather be in a rage over the fact that my code isn't doing what I want than if my battery isn't taking a charge again. An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. I probably won't upgrade until I see how Apple's Retina display transitions to their laptop line. The upgrade then will probably be out of lust than necessity. We're talking about the primary tool of our trade. I make my living using this device. If I was repairing cars again I'd be buying Snap-On. Yeah, it's expensive. But goddamnit if I break a wrench they replace it for free. The guy drives to my house and gives me demos. I don't need my tools giving me grief, I need to get work done with them. Just my thoughts on the 'Apple tax'.
        masklinn 15y ago
        > An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. MBPs are not that tough though, I've a colleague who really shouldn't be left alone with machines, his MBA (which he brings everywhere and takes little care of) did suffer quite a bit, it's horribly dirty and has quite a few dents. A Dell half the price would probably be dead already, though. But he'd probably benefit from a Toughbook C1, that's a step up in ruggedness, MB's aluminum is nice but not that solid.
archangel_one 15y ago
The last one I bought (a 13" about 18 months ago) wasn't. Yes, you could buy a Windows laptop from Dell or HP or someone for half the price, but it would have less than half the battery life, it would be larger (albeit probably not heavier; Macbooks are the densest laptops I've found) and it would have a plastic shell instead of aluminium which feels worse when new and won't age well. It would also come laden with crapware, which isn't an issue for me since I've put Linux on it anyway, but it is a big deal for most people - the majority of machines I see running badly these days are doing it because of software, not hardware. I guess if you're coming from the perspective of maximum CPU performance per $ being the key metric, then they probably aren't a great deal, but for most people that's not really the most important thing any more.
- pavanky 15y ago
  Dell 15z: $1200 http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn Macbook Pro: $2100 (Battery life 7hr) http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO-INDEX&cp=BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... 15z review. Battery life: 7.5hr. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-flattering/5 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-fl... Just saying. Used the 15z for comparison, because I think it is closest in terms of form factor. If you are going to use linux anyway, why waste the extra $900 to buy an OS you dont use.
  - metatronscube 15y ago
    I like to consider the total cost of ownership when purchasing a piece of hardware, which is hard to quantify and sometimes a touchy and subjective topic but I have found Apple Computers/Laptops to substantially outlast anything from Dell or HP. I would lay down 2K for an Apple and never quibble (that much) but I would never do that for any other brand (I have just had lots of very bad and costly experiences with them....Dell in particular)
  - archangel_one 15y ago
    Fair shout. Like I said, I bought my last laptop 18 months ago and back then I didn't think Dell had any good options; admittedly their website is a maze of twisty laptop models and brands and price points which I may well have missed something good in. Amusingly in this case I can't see any picture of their laptop and when I leave the tab via ctrl+shift+tab it pops something up saying '9'. Very professional. I would also observe that I'm wasting money on an operating system I don't really want on the Dell as well, although it would likely be somewhat more useful to me than OSX. I guess that it does look like a really nice machine. I think it says something though about Dell's image as a company that I find it hard to believe they've genuinely created something that good at this point (and yes, I have owned Dell machines before; that's part of why). I guess I should probably cut them some slack...
Gravityloss 15y ago
I don't think you can get anything with an equal display at the same price point as a macbook pro.
- pavanky 15y ago
  What metric are you using when you say equal display ? I have two laptops that display at 1080p (no, not an external monitor, just the laptop displays themselves).
  - Gravityloss 15y ago
    Resolution, colors.
- pavanky 15y ago
  Well I did mention two laptops 1080p (1920 x 1080) with a color depth of 24. Both bought for around $1200, with substantially better hardware than what apple offers.

riledhel 15y ago

But what about the battery life under linux? Have you experienced any kind of problems with that?

herrwolfe 15y ago
I'd be interested to know this as well - are you experiencing decent batt life dual booting into Linux on your macbooks/airs?