5 ms·

I am not from the valley and it is heart-warming to see Linux beat out OSX. Especially considering the number of mac books I have seen engineers carry about, th

by pavanky 15y ago

I am not from the valley and it is heart-warming to see Linux beat out OSX. Especially considering the number of mac books I have seen engineers carry about, the couple of times I have been there.

stanleydrew 15y ago
Some of us run Linux on our MacBooks.
- skore 15y ago
  It is clearly the best of both worlds.
  - pavanky 15y ago
    Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? Personally I'd rather buy a laptop and a tablet (something like the transformer) rather than get something that costs twice as much or offers lower return on hardware for the same price. Disclaimer: I am from a parallel programming background, so I am biased towards performance rather than form factor or battery life.
    - masklinn 15y ago
      > Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? No? I mean is a Panasonic Toughbook C1 "overpriced"? It'll always depend on what you value and what your qualitative and quantitative metrics are.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        masklinn 15y ago
        > I mentioned my criteria Not really. > Return of hardware on the money investted. That's not a criteria, it's not even fuzzy it's empty. > To me people using macs are using them because one of the following: Ah, so you were not actually asking a question and did not have any interest in answers. Noted.
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        kbutler 15y ago
        I recently purchased a <$1000 HP laptop because I couldn't bring myself to pay the Apple tax (basically double) for similar hardware. I'm currently having a hard time with the feel of the machine. The worst part is the trackpad - multi-touch scrolling is flaky, and I either get unintended clicks or enable a "palm check" that turns off the trackpad when typing. I'm deciding laptop ergonomics are really important (but $1000 important? cringe)
        amishforkfight 15y ago
        The three laptops I had before my MBP were all from different companies, ASUS, Gateway, Dell, and I hated the hardware on all of them. There was always something going on. The case didn't close right, the battery life sucked, the trackpads were awful and so itty bitty, the wifi cut in and out, the power cord needed to be jiggled just right to charge, or wouldn't charge at all unless held in place with tape just so... between the three laptops and six years there was always SOMETHING going wrong. So you could say that I originally purchased my MBP because of the hardware. I expected to install Windows on it (didn't, but that's a different story). I swallowed the extra cost when I did the math. I use my laptop about 3000 hours a year. Day in, day out, I'm on it in some way. They usually last me 2 years or so before I get the itch to upgrade or they fail. I did the math and found that the ~$1000 laptops I bought cost me $0.003 per minute over the course of those two years. A $1300 MBP cost me $0.004 per minute. I decided that I would rather pay $0.001 more per minute to enjoy the hardware I used. I'd rather be in a rage over the fact that my code isn't doing what I want than if my battery isn't taking a charge again. An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. I probably won't upgrade until I see how Apple's Retina display transitions to their laptop line. The upgrade then will probably be out of lust than necessity. We're talking about the primary tool of our trade. I make my living using this device. If I was repairing cars again I'd be buying Snap-On. Yeah, it's expensive. But goddamnit if I break a wrench they replace it for free. The guy drives to my house and gives me demos. I don't need my tools giving me grief, I need to get work done with them. Just my thoughts on the 'Apple tax'.
    - archangel_one 15y ago
      The last one I bought (a 13" about 18 months ago) wasn't. Yes, you could buy a Windows laptop from Dell or HP or someone for half the price, but it would have less than half the battery life, it would be larger (albeit probably not heavier; Macbooks are the densest laptops I've found) and it would have a plastic shell instead of aluminium which feels worse when new and won't age well. It would also come laden with crapware, which isn't an issue for me since I've put Linux on it anyway, but it is a big deal for most people - the majority of machines I see running badly these days are doing it because of software, not hardware. I guess if you're coming from the perspective of maximum CPU performance per $ being the key metric, then they probably aren't a great deal, but for most people that's not really the most important thing any more.
      - pavanky 15y ago
        Dell 15z: $1200 http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn Macbook Pro: $2100 (Battery life 7hr) http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO-INDEX&cp=BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... 15z review. Battery life: 7.5hr. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-flattering/5 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-fl... Just saying. Used the 15z for comparison, because I think it is closest in terms of form factor. If you are going to use linux anyway, why waste the extra $900 to buy an OS you dont use.
        metatronscube 15y ago
        I like to consider the total cost of ownership when purchasing a piece of hardware, which is hard to quantify and sometimes a touchy and subjective topic but I have found Apple Computers/Laptops to substantially outlast anything from Dell or HP. I would lay down 2K for an Apple and never quibble (that much) but I would never do that for any other brand (I have just had lots of very bad and costly experiences with them....Dell in particular)
        archangel_one 15y ago
        Fair shout. Like I said, I bought my last laptop 18 months ago and back then I didn't think Dell had any good options; admittedly their website is a maze of twisty laptop models and brands and price points which I may well have missed something good in. Amusingly in this case I can't see any picture of their laptop and when I leave the tab via ctrl+shift+tab it pops something up saying '9'. Very professional. I would also observe that I'm wasting money on an operating system I don't really want on the Dell as well, although it would likely be somewhat more useful to me than OSX. I guess that it does look like a really nice machine. I think it says something though about Dell's image as a company that I find it hard to believe they've genuinely created something that good at this point (and yes, I have owned Dell machines before; that's part of why). I guess I should probably cut them some slack...
    - Gravityloss 15y ago
      I don't think you can get anything with an equal display at the same price point as a macbook pro.
      - pavanky 15y ago
        What metric are you using when you say equal display ? I have two laptops that display at 1080p (no, not an external monitor, just the laptop displays themselves).
        Gravityloss 15y ago
        Resolution, colors.
      - pavanky 15y ago
        Well I did mention two laptops 1080p (1920 x 1080) with a color depth of 24. Both bought for around $1200, with substantially better hardware than what apple offers.
  - riledhel 15y ago
    But what about the battery life under linux? Have you experienced any kind of problems with that?
    - herrwolfe 15y ago
      I'd be interested to know this as well - are you experiencing decent batt life dual booting into Linux on your macbooks/airs?
- cageface 15y ago
  I'm kind of indifferent to OS X but the Mac laptop hardware is so nice, particularly the trackpad, that I'm likely to stay an Apple customer for the foreseeable future.
  - ansgri 15y ago
    <rant> Am I the only one hating especially the trackpad? I feel like it has much lower relative spatial resolution, i.e. if you set the maximum cursor speed you still have to make long motions, and the precision for some reason is far from pixel perfect. And pixel-perfect pointing is something to be desired with those ubiquitious small controls in OSX. In discussions like this, where serious hackers praise OSX over Windows, I feel like I have some strange disease that makes me prefer my old Toshiba U500 over new MacBook Pro sitting on my shelf. (Really want the MacBook Air but feel like I'd hate it too) </rant>
    - canthonytucci 15y ago
      Serious hackers use the keyboard. (Awesome WM, vim and vimium on chrome). Joking aside, I've never found any trackpad Apple or otherwise that I could use as efficiently for pointing and clicking as even a cheap-o mouse. But gestures and scrolling are so smooth and so useful on OS X that I keep one around (even when I'm at my desk - I now keep a mouse to the right and a trackpad to the left).

by pavanky 15y ago

I am not from the valley and it is heart-warming to see Linux beat out OSX. Especially considering the number of mac books I have seen engineers carry about, the couple of times I have been there.

stanleydrew 15y ago

Some of us run Linux on our MacBooks.

skore 15y ago
It is clearly the best of both worlds.
- pavanky 15y ago
  Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? Personally I'd rather buy a laptop and a tablet (something like the transformer) rather than get something that costs twice as much or offers lower return on hardware for the same price. Disclaimer: I am from a parallel programming background, so I am biased towards performance rather than form factor or battery life.
  - masklinn 15y ago
    > Aren't the macbooks over-priced ? No? I mean is a Panasonic Toughbook C1 "overpriced"? It'll always depend on what you value and what your qualitative and quantitative metrics are.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
      - masklinn 15y ago
        > I mentioned my criteria Not really. > Return of hardware on the money investted. That's not a criteria, it's not even fuzzy it's empty. > To me people using macs are using them because one of the following: Ah, so you were not actually asking a question and did not have any interest in answers. Noted.
      - deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
        kbutler 15y ago
        I recently purchased a <$1000 HP laptop because I couldn't bring myself to pay the Apple tax (basically double) for similar hardware. I'm currently having a hard time with the feel of the machine. The worst part is the trackpad - multi-touch scrolling is flaky, and I either get unintended clicks or enable a "palm check" that turns off the trackpad when typing. I'm deciding laptop ergonomics are really important (but $1000 important? cringe)
        amishforkfight 15y ago
        The three laptops I had before my MBP were all from different companies, ASUS, Gateway, Dell, and I hated the hardware on all of them. There was always something going on. The case didn't close right, the battery life sucked, the trackpads were awful and so itty bitty, the wifi cut in and out, the power cord needed to be jiggled just right to charge, or wouldn't charge at all unless held in place with tape just so... between the three laptops and six years there was always SOMETHING going wrong. So you could say that I originally purchased my MBP because of the hardware. I expected to install Windows on it (didn't, but that's a different story). I swallowed the extra cost when I did the math. I use my laptop about 3000 hours a year. Day in, day out, I'm on it in some way. They usually last me 2 years or so before I get the itch to upgrade or they fail. I did the math and found that the ~$1000 laptops I bought cost me $0.003 per minute over the course of those two years. A $1300 MBP cost me $0.004 per minute. I decided that I would rather pay $0.001 more per minute to enjoy the hardware I used. I'd rather be in a rage over the fact that my code isn't doing what I want than if my battery isn't taking a charge again. An added side benefit has been how much tougher the MBP is. I've had it for two years now and it shows no signs of needing replacement. I probably won't upgrade until I see how Apple's Retina display transitions to their laptop line. The upgrade then will probably be out of lust than necessity. We're talking about the primary tool of our trade. I make my living using this device. If I was repairing cars again I'd be buying Snap-On. Yeah, it's expensive. But goddamnit if I break a wrench they replace it for free. The guy drives to my house and gives me demos. I don't need my tools giving me grief, I need to get work done with them. Just my thoughts on the 'Apple tax'.
  - archangel_one 15y ago
    The last one I bought (a 13" about 18 months ago) wasn't. Yes, you could buy a Windows laptop from Dell or HP or someone for half the price, but it would have less than half the battery life, it would be larger (albeit probably not heavier; Macbooks are the densest laptops I've found) and it would have a plastic shell instead of aluminium which feels worse when new and won't age well. It would also come laden with crapware, which isn't an issue for me since I've put Linux on it anyway, but it is a big deal for most people - the majority of machines I see running badly these days are doing it because of software, not hardware. I guess if you're coming from the perspective of maximum CPU performance per $ being the key metric, then they probably aren't a great deal, but for most people that's not really the most important thing any more.
    - pavanky 15y ago
      Dell 15z: $1200 http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn http://www.dell.com/us/p/xps-15z/pd.aspx?~ck=mn Macbook Pro: $2100 (Battery life 7hr) http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro?aid=AIC-WWW-NAUS-K2-BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO-INDEX&cp=BUYNOW-MACBOOKPRO http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macboo... 15z review. Battery life: 7.5hr. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-flattering/5 http://www.anandtech.com/show/4711/dell-xps-15z-sincerely-fl... Just saying. Used the 15z for comparison, because I think it is closest in terms of form factor. If you are going to use linux anyway, why waste the extra $900 to buy an OS you dont use.
      - metatronscube 15y ago
        I like to consider the total cost of ownership when purchasing a piece of hardware, which is hard to quantify and sometimes a touchy and subjective topic but I have found Apple Computers/Laptops to substantially outlast anything from Dell or HP. I would lay down 2K for an Apple and never quibble (that much) but I would never do that for any other brand (I have just had lots of very bad and costly experiences with them....Dell in particular)
      - archangel_one 15y ago
        Fair shout. Like I said, I bought my last laptop 18 months ago and back then I didn't think Dell had any good options; admittedly their website is a maze of twisty laptop models and brands and price points which I may well have missed something good in. Amusingly in this case I can't see any picture of their laptop and when I leave the tab via ctrl+shift+tab it pops something up saying '9'. Very professional. I would also observe that I'm wasting money on an operating system I don't really want on the Dell as well, although it would likely be somewhat more useful to me than OSX. I guess that it does look like a really nice machine. I think it says something though about Dell's image as a company that I find it hard to believe they've genuinely created something that good at this point (and yes, I have owned Dell machines before; that's part of why). I guess I should probably cut them some slack...
  - Gravityloss 15y ago
    I don't think you can get anything with an equal display at the same price point as a macbook pro.
    - pavanky 15y ago
      What metric are you using when you say equal display ? I have two laptops that display at 1080p (no, not an external monitor, just the laptop displays themselves).
      - Gravityloss 15y ago
        Resolution, colors.
    - pavanky 15y ago
      Well I did mention two laptops 1080p (1920 x 1080) with a color depth of 24. Both bought for around $1200, with substantially better hardware than what apple offers.
- riledhel 15y ago
  But what about the battery life under linux? Have you experienced any kind of problems with that?
  - herrwolfe 15y ago
    I'd be interested to know this as well - are you experiencing decent batt life dual booting into Linux on your macbooks/airs?
cageface 15y ago
I'm kind of indifferent to OS X but the Mac laptop hardware is so nice, particularly the trackpad, that I'm likely to stay an Apple customer for the foreseeable future.
- ansgri 15y ago
  <rant> Am I the only one hating especially the trackpad? I feel like it has much lower relative spatial resolution, i.e. if you set the maximum cursor speed you still have to make long motions, and the precision for some reason is far from pixel perfect. And pixel-perfect pointing is something to be desired with those ubiquitious small controls in OSX. In discussions like this, where serious hackers praise OSX over Windows, I feel like I have some strange disease that makes me prefer my old Toshiba U500 over new MacBook Pro sitting on my shelf. (Really want the MacBook Air but feel like I'd hate it too) </rant>
  - canthonytucci 15y ago
    Serious hackers use the keyboard. (Awesome WM, vim and vimium on chrome). Joking aside, I've never found any trackpad Apple or otherwise that I could use as efficiently for pointing and clicking as even a cheap-o mouse. But gestures and scrolling are so smooth and so useful on OS X that I keep one around (even when I'm at my desk - I now keep a mouse to the right and a trackpad to the left).