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It is a lie that Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing hiding the fact that the Arab league wanted to wipe out all Jewish settlements. Just like it happened

It is a lie that Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing hiding the fact that the Arab league wanted to wipe out all Jewish settlements. Just like it happened in other Arab countries at that time and just how they want to do it today. War erupted which Israel won and hence their claim to the land. They did not ethnically cleanse anyone, in many cases they even bought the land, which I have never seen in a similar conflict. Usually it is just taken.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
Man what do you want to call the forced removal of an ethnic group from a geographic area so they can be replaced by another one? Ethnic cleansing has been the accepted term for this for a couple generations but I'm flexible on nomenclature here as long as we agree that the forced removal happened. If we don't agree that it did then we literally cannot have a conversation across this boundary on this subject. I also don't see how you can adequately explain the current situation in the region when you deny this part of its history but that's your problem I guess.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  Any admittance of fault would be abused and very one-sided, so we cannot have a discussion on this topic indeed. I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. If you only hold discussions where one party must confess to ethnic cleansing, conflict is inevitable.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    No I hold plenty of discussions where no one has to confess to an ethnic cleansing. But only ones where neither participant has committed one. > I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. What does it mean "stand by" a statement that an assertion is a lie without attempting to refute the assertion? This is a nonsense action, it is nothing. I said I'm flexible about the vocabulary we use when we talk about what happened, so what happened? Why do so many palestinians live in gaza? How did they get there, under what conditions do they remain? Why aren't there more of them in other parts of israel? I'm giving you an opportunity to describe it on your terms. So describe it.
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      You haven't put forward any argument that would allow for such a severe accusation, so I can dismiss it w.ithout comment just fine. I am not flexible about the vocabulary of ethnic cleansing for that matter. It has a very specific meaning
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
        I'm not making an argument, I'm making an assertion that you called a lie. So clearly you understood the point I'm making, I don't see that it requires further litigation on the details. So, again, what happened? What is your description of the events that led to palestinians being so concentrated in gaza, and no longer living in the land they inhabited before. Again I am giving you an opportunity to tell this story in the words you prefer. What, other than your cowardice, is preventing you from taking it?
        raxxorraxor 3y ago
        Heh, no, it definitely doesn't need any litigation of the details at all as the case is pretty clear, your honor. It is their own making. It is safe to be a Palestinian in Israel, while you probably don't want to be a Jew in Gaza.
        giraffe_lady 3y ago
        You wouldn't want to be an unarmed german in an unsupervised corner of auchswitz either but that's hardly a condemnation of the prisoners is it. https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide
        raxxorraxor 3y ago
        That comparison doesn't fit because the Jews in Germany didn't want to exterminate Germans. That was Nazi propaganda. Perhaps that perspective survived from the closeness of Hitler with the Mufti.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

Man what do you want to call the forced removal of an ethnic group from a geographic area so they can be replaced by another one? Ethnic cleansing has been the accepted term for this for a couple generations but I'm flexible on nomenclature here as long as we agree that the forced removal happened. If we don't agree that it did then we literally cannot have a conversation across this boundary on this subject. I also don't see how you can adequately explain the current situation in the region when you deny this part of its history but that's your problem I guess.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
Any admittance of fault would be abused and very one-sided, so we cannot have a discussion on this topic indeed. I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. If you only hold discussions where one party must confess to ethnic cleansing, conflict is inevitable.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  No I hold plenty of discussions where no one has to confess to an ethnic cleansing. But only ones where neither participant has committed one. > I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. What does it mean "stand by" a statement that an assertion is a lie without attempting to refute the assertion? This is a nonsense action, it is nothing. I said I'm flexible about the vocabulary we use when we talk about what happened, so what happened? Why do so many palestinians live in gaza? How did they get there, under what conditions do they remain? Why aren't there more of them in other parts of israel? I'm giving you an opportunity to describe it on your terms. So describe it.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    You haven't put forward any argument that would allow for such a severe accusation, so I can dismiss it w.ithout comment just fine. I am not flexible about the vocabulary of ethnic cleansing for that matter. It has a very specific meaning
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      I'm not making an argument, I'm making an assertion that you called a lie. So clearly you understood the point I'm making, I don't see that it requires further litigation on the details. So, again, what happened? What is your description of the events that led to palestinians being so concentrated in gaza, and no longer living in the land they inhabited before. Again I am giving you an opportunity to tell this story in the words you prefer. What, other than your cowardice, is preventing you from taking it?
      - raxxorraxor 3y ago
        Heh, no, it definitely doesn't need any litigation of the details at all as the case is pretty clear, your honor. It is their own making. It is safe to be a Palestinian in Israel, while you probably don't want to be a Jew in Gaza.
        giraffe_lady 3y ago
        You wouldn't want to be an unarmed german in an unsupervised corner of auchswitz either but that's hardly a condemnation of the prisoners is it. https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide
        raxxorraxor 3y ago
        That comparison doesn't fit because the Jews in Germany didn't want to exterminate Germans. That was Nazi propaganda. Perhaps that perspective survived from the closeness of Hitler with the Mufti.