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I'm happy to help answer questions folks have on the product. We (without intending to) ended up being among the first to ship a Ryzen 7040 U-series laptop, wh

by nrp 3y ago

I'm happy to help answer questions folks have on the product. We (without intending to) ended up being among the first to ship a Ryzen 7040 U-series laptop, which means Linux support is early and depends on having the right kernel version. As others have noted in the comments, we were in a similar place when we were one of the earlier ones on both 12th Gen Intel Core and 13th Gen Intel Core, and both matured rapidly. AMD continues to improve things with each release, and we've sent hardware to folks at Canonical for Ubuntu and Red Hat for Fedora to help speed along the process of having the out of the box experience with popular distros be smooth.

voltagex_ 3y ago
Is there any hope for the wifi bugs mentioned in the article? I was trying to avoid reviews like this because I didn't want to be thinking about all the problems instead of looking forward to my new laptop. I am now wondering if I should have gone Intel.
- zackify 3y ago
  I don’t want to sway people from the WiFi issues. I saw others in the forums without problems. I can definitely say for sure, I ran at least 20 speed tests between it and two phones in the same locations and had much lower bandwidth on it. Hoping this is just an amd issue that will get better.
- spatterl1ght 3y ago
  i feel like the wifi issues are kind of overblown, i mean 300 down is still blazing fast -- but that is just my usage
  - zackify 3y ago
    Yeah exactly. Like it sucks because I have 6E and it can’t really use it, but it’s only a big deal when transferring large files on my network.
    - sva_ 3y ago
      I wonder if this could be due to regulatory domain at all? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wireless#Respecting_the_regulatory_domain https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wirel... 6E didn't work on my Elitebook until I set it from global to my local country. But completely different WiFi chip.
  - voltagex_ 3y ago
    I currently get 600 using an Intel AX201 card and 900 from a better router.
    - trustingtrust 3y ago
      The intel stack is more mature right now as someone pointed out in the comments above. Down the road AMD will get better with better drivers and newer chips. If wifi speeds matter to someone and they are upgrading from an older intel board then keeping the old wifi card would make sense as of now.
- nrp 3y ago
  As the original poster noted, this seems to be an interaction between the specific access point or router and the AMD RZ616 driver, and not something that other users are seeing on their home networks. The RZ616 is AMD's rebrand of MediaTek MT7921K. Mediatek does have a dedicated team working on Linux drivers, but we haven't seen their or AMD's plans: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/mediatek https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/mediatek All of that said, 13th Gen Intel Core and specifically Intel AX210 WiFi are quite mature in Linux, and Ryzen 7040 U-series and RZ616 are quite new. All indications and communication we've had with AMD point to them having a strong desire to deliver a great Linux experience.
  - Kelteseth 3y ago
    So my Framework laptop is currently in transit. In theory, I would just swap the AMD wifi card with an 25 euro Intel AX210?
    - voltagex_ 3y ago
      Try the card first but yes, you can do that.
    - NewJazz 3y ago
      Yep this should be possible AIUI funnily enough, it is not possible on the Intel models.
    - felixg3 3y ago
      You can also replace the MediaTek RZ616 with a Qualcomm FastConnect 6900 card, which is equally supported by AMD and default on their Ryzen Pro models. I’m very happy with mine, got it from eBay.
  - voltagex_ 3y ago
    You are probably in a better place than me to really push them on Linux support. Mediatek's Linux support seems reasonable, but I've only had experience running the AP cards in OpenWRT, not the little baby client cards.
luyu_wu 3y ago
Curious as to what the second vent on the right of the chassis is for? A second fan placement? Just a passing curiosity as I noticed it when assembling!
- nrp 3y ago
  That vent is for air intake.
whazor 3y ago
Do you have plans for automating the BIOS updates? At the moment, my Intel 12th gen mainboard BIOS has several vulnerabilities and many people are waiting for updates. In a couple of years, you will have to support even more mainboards and I hope you are working on software infrastructure to properly support that.
- nrp 3y ago
  I shared an update around that earlier today in our Community: https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-intel-core-bios-3-06-beta/25726/370 https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-intel-core-bios-3-06...
guerby 3y ago
I noticed at the Kernel Recipes conference in Paris that Greg KH has a frame.work laptop and when I asked him he was very happy about it. Do you ship early models to linux kernel developpers and may be distribution developpers?
- nrp 3y ago
  We’ve shipped a handful of pre-release units to folks at Canonical, Red Hat, and Manjaro for QA/compatibility testing. We have seen a much larger number of people involved in kernel or distro development pick up released systems on their own.
Jhsto 3y ago
Any idea when you could do an Intel or AMD device with coreboot?
- dorfsmay 3y ago
  And a trackpoint! I'd buy those sight unseen.
  - jjice 3y ago
    Hmm I wonder if that could just be a simple keyboard replacement given the modularity of the Frameworks.
    - cesarb 3y ago
      I recall reading somewhere that there's a height issue (a keyboard with a trackpoint would need more height than what's available). (I'm not a trackpoint user, but I like the extra set of three standalone mouse buttons which usually come with a trackpoint; the middle mouse button is particularly useful, since it's not usually available on a trackpad.)
      - circuit10 3y ago
        You can usually do a three finger tap for middle mouse which isn’t as convenient but it works
hyperman1 3y ago
Thanks for taking the time to appear here, give in depth answers, and still be a human face on the company. My non-technical wife's laptop is needing replacement. I was going to buy a second hand thinkpad, but if enough stars align, a framework might be a good option.
bootloop 3y ago
How was the experience from not being acknowledge by AMD, because you were not big enough, to going to be the first once shipping their new flagship laptop CPU after all their other customers moved their timeline out? I imagine their willingness to support you did increase in the last few months? Eagerly awaiting my batch to ship. Very happy that I see a great team being in charge of this product. Also thanks for being proactive in supporting the Linux community.
- nrp 3y ago
  AMD is a smaller company than you might expect, which drives them to need to focus. Once they got internal alignment to work with us though, they were all in from the start of kicking off the program.
  - bootloop 3y ago
    Very nice to hear that they are able to provide good support to you. I don't work with AMD but other SoC vendors and this is always a bit of a challenge (The Q on how important you are to their business / bottom line).
rowanG077 3y ago
So one of the major things holding me of buying a framework is the screen. There have been sounds in the community asking for an upgraded screen option (500+ nits/HDR, 120hz, higher res etc) for years. Is this just something you guy aren't interested in at all? Or is it too hard sourcing panels, or even sourcing panels that fit the framework case?
crossroadsguy 3y ago
Reluctantly bought a MacBook Air few days back, literally trying to somehow use my too old last MacBook Air while I waited/hope for something like a Framework laptop. But then I eventually realised that being in a third world country means the enthusiast initiatives would never reach you in time and when they do they’d probably be obsolete, out of practical use and irrelevant for various reasons. Maybe that’s one of the reasons for not focusing on such markets.
verall 3y ago
My FW 12th gen still shuts down during sleep, same issue as tons and tons of other people here: https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-shuts-down-during-sleep/23645 https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-shuts-down-during-slee... It seems like I got the least supported mainboard, which kind of sucks. If I knew this one was unsupported I would have just bought the 11th gen. I love the HW design and modularity and there are FW problems with like every laptop ever but it doesn't change how much this problem sucks.
zackify 3y ago
Just wanted to reply to you once more. I’ve seen multiple other forum users unable to update fingerprint sensors in Linux with the same problem I had. Also I’ve seen threads asking why Ubuntu freezes and if anyone else is having problems. You guys explained in 1 forum post that amd is working on a fix for the second issue, and nobody has really mentioned the fwupd freezes some of us run into. It’s just one more example of stuff in too many places. The official Ubuntu install guide doesn’t mention a new fix is coming to fix freezes and the place that does is a forum post that many people may miss. Need 1 hub page for each device with some sort of stream of updates. I have to bookmark the bios guide page to find out if new ones are out, a forum post to see if there is new changes with Ubuntu, stuff is a little far apart and manual process to find updates.

by nrp 3y ago

voltagex_ 3y ago

Is there any hope for the wifi bugs mentioned in the article? I was trying to avoid reviews like this because I didn't want to be thinking about all the problems instead of looking forward to my new laptop. I am now wondering if I should have gone Intel.

zackify 3y ago
I don’t want to sway people from the WiFi issues. I saw others in the forums without problems. I can definitely say for sure, I ran at least 20 speed tests between it and two phones in the same locations and had much lower bandwidth on it. Hoping this is just an amd issue that will get better.
spatterl1ght 3y ago
i feel like the wifi issues are kind of overblown, i mean 300 down is still blazing fast -- but that is just my usage
- zackify 3y ago
  Yeah exactly. Like it sucks because I have 6E and it can’t really use it, but it’s only a big deal when transferring large files on my network.
  - sva_ 3y ago
    I wonder if this could be due to regulatory domain at all? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wireless#Respecting_the_regulatory_domain https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Network_configuration/Wirel... 6E didn't work on my Elitebook until I set it from global to my local country. But completely different WiFi chip.
- voltagex_ 3y ago
  I currently get 600 using an Intel AX201 card and 900 from a better router.
  - trustingtrust 3y ago
    The intel stack is more mature right now as someone pointed out in the comments above. Down the road AMD will get better with better drivers and newer chips. If wifi speeds matter to someone and they are upgrading from an older intel board then keeping the old wifi card would make sense as of now.
nrp 3y ago
As the original poster noted, this seems to be an interaction between the specific access point or router and the AMD RZ616 driver, and not something that other users are seeing on their home networks. The RZ616 is AMD's rebrand of MediaTek MT7921K. Mediatek does have a dedicated team working on Linux drivers, but we haven't seen their or AMD's plans: https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/mediatek https://wireless.wiki.kernel.org/en/users/drivers/mediatek All of that said, 13th Gen Intel Core and specifically Intel AX210 WiFi are quite mature in Linux, and Ryzen 7040 U-series and RZ616 are quite new. All indications and communication we've had with AMD point to them having a strong desire to deliver a great Linux experience.
- Kelteseth 3y ago
  So my Framework laptop is currently in transit. In theory, I would just swap the AMD wifi card with an 25 euro Intel AX210?
  - voltagex_ 3y ago
    Try the card first but yes, you can do that.
  - NewJazz 3y ago
    Yep this should be possible AIUI funnily enough, it is not possible on the Intel models.
  - felixg3 3y ago
    You can also replace the MediaTek RZ616 with a Qualcomm FastConnect 6900 card, which is equally supported by AMD and default on their Ryzen Pro models. I’m very happy with mine, got it from eBay.
- voltagex_ 3y ago
  You are probably in a better place than me to really push them on Linux support. Mediatek's Linux support seems reasonable, but I've only had experience running the AP cards in OpenWRT, not the little baby client cards.

luyu_wu 3y ago

Curious as to what the second vent on the right of the chassis is for? A second fan placement? Just a passing curiosity as I noticed it when assembling!

nrp 3y ago
That vent is for air intake.

whazor 3y ago

Do you have plans for automating the BIOS updates? At the moment, my Intel 12th gen mainboard BIOS has several vulnerabilities and many people are waiting for updates. In a couple of years, you will have to support even more mainboards and I hope you are working on software infrastructure to properly support that.

nrp 3y ago
I shared an update around that earlier today in our Community: https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-intel-core-bios-3-06-beta/25726/370 https://community.frame.work/t/12th-gen-intel-core-bios-3-06...

guerby 3y ago

I noticed at the Kernel Recipes conference in Paris that Greg KH has a frame.work laptop and when I asked him he was very happy about it. Do you ship early models to linux kernel developpers and may be distribution developpers?

nrp 3y ago
We’ve shipped a handful of pre-release units to folks at Canonical, Red Hat, and Manjaro for QA/compatibility testing. We have seen a much larger number of people involved in kernel or distro development pick up released systems on their own.

Jhsto 3y ago

Any idea when you could do an Intel or AMD device with coreboot?

dorfsmay 3y ago
And a trackpoint! I'd buy those sight unseen.
- jjice 3y ago
  Hmm I wonder if that could just be a simple keyboard replacement given the modularity of the Frameworks.
  - cesarb 3y ago
    I recall reading somewhere that there's a height issue (a keyboard with a trackpoint would need more height than what's available). (I'm not a trackpoint user, but I like the extra set of three standalone mouse buttons which usually come with a trackpoint; the middle mouse button is particularly useful, since it's not usually available on a trackpad.)
    - circuit10 3y ago
      You can usually do a three finger tap for middle mouse which isn’t as convenient but it works

hyperman1 3y ago

Thanks for taking the time to appear here, give in depth answers, and still be a human face on the company. My non-technical wife's laptop is needing replacement. I was going to buy a second hand thinkpad, but if enough stars align, a framework might be a good option.

bootloop 3y ago

How was the experience from not being acknowledge by AMD, because you were not big enough, to going to be the first once shipping their new flagship laptop CPU after all their other customers moved their timeline out? I imagine their willingness to support you did increase in the last few months? Eagerly awaiting my batch to ship. Very happy that I see a great team being in charge of this product. Also thanks for being proactive in supporting the Linux community.

nrp 3y ago
AMD is a smaller company than you might expect, which drives them to need to focus. Once they got internal alignment to work with us though, they were all in from the start of kicking off the program.
- bootloop 3y ago
  Very nice to hear that they are able to provide good support to you. I don't work with AMD but other SoC vendors and this is always a bit of a challenge (The Q on how important you are to their business / bottom line).

rowanG077 3y ago

So one of the major things holding me of buying a framework is the screen. There have been sounds in the community asking for an upgraded screen option (500+ nits/HDR, 120hz, higher res etc) for years. Is this just something you guy aren't interested in at all? Or is it too hard sourcing panels, or even sourcing panels that fit the framework case?

crossroadsguy 3y ago

Reluctantly bought a MacBook Air few days back, literally trying to somehow use my too old last MacBook Air while I waited/hope for something like a Framework laptop. But then I eventually realised that being in a third world country means the enthusiast initiatives would never reach you in time and when they do they’d probably be obsolete, out of practical use and irrelevant for various reasons. Maybe that’s one of the reasons for not focusing on such markets.

verall 3y ago

My FW 12th gen still shuts down during sleep, same issue as tons and tons of other people here: https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-shuts-down-during-sleep/23645 https://community.frame.work/t/laptop-shuts-down-during-slee... It seems like I got the least supported mainboard, which kind of sucks. If I knew this one was unsupported I would have just bought the 11th gen. I love the HW design and modularity and there are FW problems with like every laptop ever but it doesn't change how much this problem sucks.

zackify 3y ago

Just wanted to reply to you once more. I’ve seen multiple other forum users unable to update fingerprint sensors in Linux with the same problem I had. Also I’ve seen threads asking why Ubuntu freezes and if anyone else is having problems. You guys explained in 1 forum post that amd is working on a fix for the second issue, and nobody has really mentioned the fwupd freezes some of us run into. It’s just one more example of stuff in too many places. The official Ubuntu install guide doesn’t mention a new fix is coming to fix freezes and the place that does is a forum post that many people may miss. Need 1 hub page for each device with some sort of stream of updates. I have to bookmark the bios guide page to find out if new ones are out, a forum post to see if there is new changes with Ubuntu, stuff is a little far apart and manual process to find updates.