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??? macOS (and iOS) is designed this way because of the gesture you want! You don't need the scrollbar because you have the gesture. If you want to see where yo
by wilg 3y ago
??? macOS (and iOS) is designed this way because of the gesture you want! You don't need the scrollbar because you have the gesture. If you want to see where you are in the page you just scroll a teeny bit. It works great, I haven't seen a scrollbar in years and its never a problem. Sure, some accessibility options are nice for some people.
- nine_k 3y agoA gesture is an action. It's good, and it works as intended. A scrollbar is (also) an indication, glanceable, not requiring any action. If someone among your friends and family has an iOS device, remember how many times you had to show them that certain screens can be scrolled down? Oh, not just down, but also to the right? There used to be a few perfectly aligned views that had no indication whatsoever that there's more to them is you scroll. Narrow but visible scrollbars would solve this easily.
- wilg 3y agoI know what a gesture is. > If someone among your friends and family has an iOS device, remember how many times you had to show them that certain screens can be scrolled down? I don't know, zero? Maybe let's say once to be charitable. This is not a real problem faced by most people. IMO, this is just people being used to doing it another way.
- kyleee 3y agoDon’t underestimate how much pulling the rug out from under people via constant UI churn negatively affects their lives and interactions with computers. Leads to lower confidence, helplessness, etc.
- wilg 3y agoI mean it's been basically one change to the scrollbar in 40 years. And you can turn them on again if you care.
- iainmerrick 3y agoOn macOS at least, it's not one change, it's at least four: - scrollbars overlaying the content, rather than having dedicated space - scrollbars that auto-hide when not in use - scrollbars that are initially narrow, then widen when you mouse-over - removal of the scroll buttons That's not including the visual design changes, which are arguably important too (e.g. the scroll "thumb" now has a very flat design rather than textured so it looks draggable). Edit to add: oh yeah, one more I forgot: in classic Mac OS the scroll thumb had a fixed size, now it reflects the size of the viewport. That one is a useful and positive change, though. Not sure where that innovation came from but it wasn't the Mac.
- wilg 3y agoThat's all one change, because they redesigned it once! You can't just pick apart all the elements of the design to claim its multiple changes. I agree the proportional scrollbar was good.
- E39M5S62 3y agoWhat? Of course you can. Multiple things were changed. That they were all lumped together in one update is meaningless.
- iainmerrick 3y agoI don’t have citations handy but I don’t think they changed it all at once. There might have a been a single major switch on macOS but I think all this stuff was developed incrementally on iOS.
- CRConrad 3y agoMany changes are still many changes even if they happened at the same time. You can't just lump together all the changes to the design to claim its only one.
- pseudalopex 3y ago1 change to scroll bars. 1 change to something else. And so on. You cannot restore the scroll bar width or buttons.
- i80and 3y agoOn the contrary, I've professionally seen even technical users get confused by their OS hiding the scroll bar, and them not realizing what they're looking for requires scrolling. Frankly, it's broken behavior.
- aniforprez 3y agoPeople literally did not know that you could scroll the share menu on some versions of android until they specifically added a "fold" to hide half an icon just so people realised that there was more options available. Hiding a scrollbar is so unnecessary. It's one of the best UI/UX elements ever created and people got it right so long ago
- Jka9rhnDJos 3y agoThen change the setting? It’s configurable in MacOS. “Always visible” or “Visible when scrolling”.
- masswerk 3y agoWhat is the gesture for "let's go to page 196 of this 320 pages document"?
- fingerlocks 3y agocmd+option+g How do you do that glancing at an always visible scroll bar?
- baq 3y agoOn which planet this chord is called a gesture?
- fingerlocks 3y agoIt’s a keyboard gesture
- masswerk 3y agoI guess, a scrollbar is just a mouse based touchscreen, after all? :-)
- oneeyedpigeon 3y agoThere may be an application in which that works, but having tried several, I'm yet to find it.
- fingerlocks 3y agoPreview and Books.app, the default pdf/doc apps on MacOS.
- wilg 3y agoScroll slightly to make the scroll bar appear and drag the handle or click in the bar where you want to go in the document.
- baq 3y agoI use a mouse and a keyboard and an external monitor. Please don’t tell me about gestures since they’re absolutely useless to me.
- wilg 3y agoThe mouse has a scroll wheel, so the gesture is the same. Also you can turn on scrollbars. Also the gesture works on Apple mice.