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People on this part of the world have been killing each other for a good 3000 years or so. It has gone back and forward and there isn't really one correct owner

People on this part of the world have been killing each other for a good 3000 years or so. It has gone back and forward and there isn't really one correct owner. However they want to do it, rolling into a music festival and shooting everyone really doesn't sound like the right way to fight injustice (perceived or real).

whatshisface 3y ago
The levels of hate have gone beyond reason and strategy and (it is hard to read my own words but because it's the truth I won't leave it implicit) reached ethnic cleansing and suicide bombing. That is the only way to explain these events and what is openly planned. The united states must stay out. Controlling a city sized pile of collapsed buildings is a nightmarish situation that I do not wish on Israeli conscripts but extraordinarily so not on our own volunteers. The prospect of a second major invasion of the middle east should give pause even in the event that a terrorist strike in the United States occurs. Second to that I hope that they can return to a peace process before the scale of the atrocities stain their (Israeli) flag forever and ours by abetting. (Hamas' flag has guns on it, it can't get a lot worse. Wishing anything from their own leadership is hopeless even surrender.) The civilians will be given guns and told their life is already over. We will be told Hamas is using child soldiers.
- shemii 3y ago
  In my opinion you shouldn't be worried about that possibility, the presence of the US in the middle east right now is probably just to deter other parties from escalating the conflict. The US has no interest and no intent for entering Gaza, Israel has the resources to deal with Hamas on it's own. One of the most important parts of this conflict I think which most people here aren't talking about ia the geopolitics in the middle east. Most of this is still just a big old proxy war spear-headed by Iran. All the big terrorist groups and actors in the region wheather it be Gaza-based terror groups like Hamas or Lebanon's Hezbollah are funded and controlled by Iran. There's a whole Wikipedia page on it, actually: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_co...
  - whatshisface 3y ago
    Israel has bombed airports in Syria only a few days ago. They seem willing to strain the American protection and could little by little provoke an escalation involving regional powers, leading to our involvement. The one thing that could make this catastrophe worse is if America is drawn in.
    - shemii 3y ago
      One need not forget that Israel too has no interest in an all out conflict. Also the syrian attack iirc was to prevent Iran's foreign minister from landing there. Everyone's (except maybe Iran's) hope is that this conflict does not escalate any more.
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      Not only a few days ago, they do that on a regular basis by now because there are regular shipments of weapons by Iran. Syria in its state of civil war doesn't have much influence in the northern regions, where Iran tried to deploy the weapons against Israel.
giraffe_lady 3y ago
> People on this part of the world have been killing each other for a good 3000 years or so. This is a really nasty way to dismiss it imo. It explains nothing but just assumes the conflict is inevitable. What, is the land cursed? Are they bloodthirsty barbarians who can't do anything else? No, there are specific grievances in the recent past and ongoing. This is not some mythical blood feud with its origins lost in history. Israel as a modern nation-state did an ethnic cleansing to get itself started a few decades ago. People are mad about that, and it's in living memory you don't need to reach back to the obscure 3000-year-old whatever.
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  It is a lie that Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing hiding the fact that the Arab league wanted to wipe out all Jewish settlements. Just like it happened in other Arab countries at that time and just how they want to do it today. War erupted which Israel won and hence their claim to the land. They did not ethnically cleanse anyone, in many cases they even bought the land, which I have never seen in a similar conflict. Usually it is just taken.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Man what do you want to call the forced removal of an ethnic group from a geographic area so they can be replaced by another one? Ethnic cleansing has been the accepted term for this for a couple generations but I'm flexible on nomenclature here as long as we agree that the forced removal happened. If we don't agree that it did then we literally cannot have a conversation across this boundary on this subject. I also don't see how you can adequately explain the current situation in the region when you deny this part of its history but that's your problem I guess.
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      Any admittance of fault would be abused and very one-sided, so we cannot have a discussion on this topic indeed. I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. If you only hold discussions where one party must confess to ethnic cleansing, conflict is inevitable.

whatshisface 3y ago

The levels of hate have gone beyond reason and strategy and (it is hard to read my own words but because it's the truth I won't leave it implicit) reached ethnic cleansing and suicide bombing. That is the only way to explain these events and what is openly planned. The united states must stay out. Controlling a city sized pile of collapsed buildings is a nightmarish situation that I do not wish on Israeli conscripts but extraordinarily so not on our own volunteers. The prospect of a second major invasion of the middle east should give pause even in the event that a terrorist strike in the United States occurs. Second to that I hope that they can return to a peace process before the scale of the atrocities stain their (Israeli) flag forever and ours by abetting. (Hamas' flag has guns on it, it can't get a lot worse. Wishing anything from their own leadership is hopeless even surrender.) The civilians will be given guns and told their life is already over. We will be told Hamas is using child soldiers.

shemii 3y ago
In my opinion you shouldn't be worried about that possibility, the presence of the US in the middle east right now is probably just to deter other parties from escalating the conflict. The US has no interest and no intent for entering Gaza, Israel has the resources to deal with Hamas on it's own. One of the most important parts of this conflict I think which most people here aren't talking about ia the geopolitics in the middle east. Most of this is still just a big old proxy war spear-headed by Iran. All the big terrorist groups and actors in the region wheather it be Gaza-based terror groups like Hamas or Lebanon's Hezbollah are funded and controlled by Iran. There's a whole Wikipedia page on it, actually: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_conflict https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Israel_proxy_co...
- whatshisface 3y ago
  Israel has bombed airports in Syria only a few days ago. They seem willing to strain the American protection and could little by little provoke an escalation involving regional powers, leading to our involvement. The one thing that could make this catastrophe worse is if America is drawn in.
  - shemii 3y ago
    One need not forget that Israel too has no interest in an all out conflict. Also the syrian attack iirc was to prevent Iran's foreign minister from landing there. Everyone's (except maybe Iran's) hope is that this conflict does not escalate any more.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Not only a few days ago, they do that on a regular basis by now because there are regular shipments of weapons by Iran. Syria in its state of civil war doesn't have much influence in the northern regions, where Iran tried to deploy the weapons against Israel.

giraffe_lady 3y ago

> People on this part of the world have been killing each other for a good 3000 years or so. This is a really nasty way to dismiss it imo. It explains nothing but just assumes the conflict is inevitable. What, is the land cursed? Are they bloodthirsty barbarians who can't do anything else? No, there are specific grievances in the recent past and ongoing. This is not some mythical blood feud with its origins lost in history. Israel as a modern nation-state did an ethnic cleansing to get itself started a few decades ago. People are mad about that, and it's in living memory you don't need to reach back to the obscure 3000-year-old whatever.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
It is a lie that Israel was founded on an ethnic cleansing hiding the fact that the Arab league wanted to wipe out all Jewish settlements. Just like it happened in other Arab countries at that time and just how they want to do it today. War erupted which Israel won and hence their claim to the land. They did not ethnically cleanse anyone, in many cases they even bought the land, which I have never seen in a similar conflict. Usually it is just taken.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  Man what do you want to call the forced removal of an ethnic group from a geographic area so they can be replaced by another one? Ethnic cleansing has been the accepted term for this for a couple generations but I'm flexible on nomenclature here as long as we agree that the forced removal happened. If we don't agree that it did then we literally cannot have a conversation across this boundary on this subject. I also don't see how you can adequately explain the current situation in the region when you deny this part of its history but that's your problem I guess.
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    Any admittance of fault would be abused and very one-sided, so we cannot have a discussion on this topic indeed. I stand by my statement that the accusation of ethnic cleansing is a hideous lie. If you only hold discussions where one party must confess to ethnic cleansing, conflict is inevitable.