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Automakers are also directly and/or indirectly responsible for the destruction of American local mass transit and the dysfunctional regression in urban planning

Automakers are also directly and/or indirectly responsible for the destruction of American local mass transit and the dysfunctional regression in urban planning* towards inefficient suburbanization. * It wasn't unplanned. It was the purposeful design of city planners who failed to take into account unintended externalities including gridlock, pollution, and cost.

seoulmetro 3y ago
[flagged]
quantified 3y ago
"Who Framed Roger Rabbit" is a great introduction, its characters are fictional but the story is somewhat true.
voisin 3y ago
I’ve heard several times but never verified that trees aren’t planted on boulevards anymore because of automaker lobbying. Something about drunk drivers might hit them. As if driver preference, even drunk drivers, should supersede the public interest.
- bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
  I've also read that drivers drive faster on streets without trees than those with because they feel more open
  - sircastor 3y ago
    The same is the case with islands between lanes. The lanes aren’t actually smaller, but they feel smaller because the space looks like it’s contracting. And they’re much nicer in a neighborhood than speed humps
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Don't forget how transportation has been one of the key areas of conflict for racial integration and has been used again and again to ensure that black and brown people did not have access to certain areas of cities. Robert Moses being the most egregious direct example, but Plessy v Ferguson enshrining racist segregationist laws around transportation which then provided precedent to spread to other segregationist laws.
- dilawar 3y ago
  In India, we have segregation based on cast. In cities, the caste based segregation is not very visible though local politicians usually have much better idea. The government used to do income based segregation or its employees: low income group or LIG homes, HIG homes, etc. Is racial segregation was by design (100% non Whiltes) or just happed due to economic factors (majority of non whites happens to be in this category)?
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    Racial segregation was literally in law for a long time. When it became illegal, none of the underlying things that had become inherent disappeared overnight. As an example, banks refused to lend in minority neighborhoods, so unlike for white Americans who used loans to bid up houses owned by white Americans and got wealth that way, Black Americans actually experienced negative housing wealth growth. Those areas are still poor, but now banks don’t lend in them because they’re not profitable, even though the reason they are not profitable is that they were never lent to in the first place. When Black people managed to build parallel financial systems and economies to provide them wealth, usually they got their properties burned down or firebombed for their trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre
cscurmudgeon 3y ago
So you are telling me the local NIMBY who protests new homes is actually the auto industry in disguise?
plants 3y ago
Can you point to a book or other resources that support this claim? Interested in learning more. Always looking for another reason to hate cars as a New Yorker
- potatochup 3y ago
  I'm reading "The Geography of Nowhere" right now, it covers much of this in a reasonably entertaining fashion, although its not chocka-block with references. It does make some predictions that haven't dated well though (like hitting peak oil in 2023) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere
- NAR8789 3y ago
  Strong Towns hy Chuck Marohn
- jcynix 3y ago
  Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
- tetris11 3y ago
  AskHistorians Jake Berman covered this in his podcast "Public Transport in North America" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D6HDTu5LYmk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D6HDTu5LYmk Apparently it's not as black and white as many in this thread would suggest.
k99x55 3y ago
Car-centric urban planning has massing (mostly hidden) negative externalities: 1. Cars are discriminatory: only licensed 18+ (and not too old) can drive. A whole demographics of children+teens+disabled have lost their mobility independence. 2. Cars robbed children of they street. Street should be a social place for humans, not a car storage space and a race track for rat runners. 3. (UK) 50% of car tripes are less than 1 mile. If these motorists had the option of cycling, everyone (pedestrians,cyclist,motorists) would be better off. 4. Much more.... Cities should be for people not machines. Cars should be treated as guests in our social space, not first-class citizens with cyclists and pedestrians having to tiptoe around cars. Some links: https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRnKXd9sHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRnKXd9sHE (Sam Balto Bike Bus) Melissa & Chris Bruntlett: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSdNTwizHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSdNTwizHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVhYcJH_m5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVhYcJH_m5o (Watch as 100s of Kids & Parents Bicycle to one Amsterdam School)

seoulmetro 3y ago

[flagged]

quantified 3y ago

"Who Framed Roger Rabbit" is a great introduction, its characters are fictional but the story is somewhat true.

voisin 3y ago

I’ve heard several times but never verified that trees aren’t planted on boulevards anymore because of automaker lobbying. Something about drunk drivers might hit them. As if driver preference, even drunk drivers, should supersede the public interest.

bobbylarrybobby 3y ago
I've also read that drivers drive faster on streets without trees than those with because they feel more open
- sircastor 3y ago
  The same is the case with islands between lanes. The lanes aren’t actually smaller, but they feel smaller because the space looks like it’s contracting. And they’re much nicer in a neighborhood than speed humps

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

Don't forget how transportation has been one of the key areas of conflict for racial integration and has been used again and again to ensure that black and brown people did not have access to certain areas of cities. Robert Moses being the most egregious direct example, but Plessy v Ferguson enshrining racist segregationist laws around transportation which then provided precedent to spread to other segregationist laws.

dilawar 3y ago
In India, we have segregation based on cast. In cities, the caste based segregation is not very visible though local politicians usually have much better idea. The government used to do income based segregation or its employees: low income group or LIG homes, HIG homes, etc. Is racial segregation was by design (100% non Whiltes) or just happed due to economic factors (majority of non whites happens to be in this category)?
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  Racial segregation was literally in law for a long time. When it became illegal, none of the underlying things that had become inherent disappeared overnight. As an example, banks refused to lend in minority neighborhoods, so unlike for white Americans who used loans to bid up houses owned by white Americans and got wealth that way, Black Americans actually experienced negative housing wealth growth. Those areas are still poor, but now banks don’t lend in them because they’re not profitable, even though the reason they are not profitable is that they were never lent to in the first place. When Black people managed to build parallel financial systems and economies to provide them wealth, usually they got their properties burned down or firebombed for their trouble. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

cscurmudgeon 3y ago

So you are telling me the local NIMBY who protests new homes is actually the auto industry in disguise?

plants 3y ago

Can you point to a book or other resources that support this claim? Interested in learning more. Always looking for another reason to hate cars as a New Yorker

potatochup 3y ago
I'm reading "The Geography of Nowhere" right now, it covers much of this in a reasonably entertaining fashion, although its not chocka-block with references. It does make some predictions that haven't dated well though (like hitting peak oil in 2023) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geography_of_Nowhere
NAR8789 3y ago
Strong Towns hy Chuck Marohn
jcynix 3y ago
Take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...
tetris11 3y ago
AskHistorians Jake Berman covered this in his podcast "Public Transport in North America" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D6HDTu5LYmk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D6HDTu5LYmk Apparently it's not as black and white as many in this thread would suggest.

k99x55 3y ago

Car-centric urban planning has massing (mostly hidden) negative externalities: 1. Cars are discriminatory: only licensed 18+ (and not too old) can drive. A whole demographics of children+teens+disabled have lost their mobility independence. 2. Cars robbed children of they street. Street should be a social place for humans, not a car storage space and a race track for rat runners. 3. (UK) 50% of car tripes are less than 1 mile. If these motorists had the option of cycling, everyone (pedestrians,cyclist,motorists) would be better off. 4. Much more.... Cities should be for people not machines. Cars should be treated as guests in our social space, not first-class citizens with cyclists and pedestrians having to tiptoe around cars. Some links: https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/@NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRnKXd9sHE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNRnKXd9sHE (Sam Balto Bike Bus) Melissa & Chris Bruntlett: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSdNTwizHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoSdNTwizHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVhYcJH_m5o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVhYcJH_m5o (Watch as 100s of Kids & Parents Bicycle to one Amsterdam School)